BA Hons @ MDiv? B.D. @ What?

Levicoff's approoval

Steve Levicoff only likes ONE MTh from the UK? Is that in his book?

Other question, does OTC offer graduate credits or just undergrad, or are they somewhat the same at OTC?

Currently, I'm thinking I'll probably just do an MTh and then pick up some graduate level, theology coursework on the side, not for any particular degree. That way, I have the degree I want from the school I want to get into a PhD, minimal effort (the ideas are already there) and then whatever coursework I need to make the degree a substantially researched one. I would choose my own courses just around my interests and research. That way I don't have to "overdo it" again (after TEDS).

Yes, I do know how to look these things up. I only asked about Spurgeon's because I was in a hurry and didn't have the time to do any surfing yesterday. I actually have looked up more theology programs in the last two months than ever before. Thank you, all the same, for your suggestions.

cg

 

thanks Cory

Cory,

does OTC offer grad level courses that I could just take, not towards a degree?

 

Christopher,

Being resident in the Chicago area, have you given any consideration to Wheaton's MA program in theological studies. This program can be pursued through a combination of DL courses, intensives, and semester-length courses. As you know, Wheaton is venerated throughout the evangelical scholarly community on a global scale. Umpteen oodles of Wheaton graduates have been enthusiastically welcomed into top UK PhD programs. Because this program only entails something like 36 semester hours, you likely could complete it in a couple of years.

Cory Seibel

 

Re: thanks Cory

Christopher,

To the best of my knowledge, OTC is focusing exclusively upon providing undergraduate-level courses.

Cory Seibel

 

okay, thanks

Thanks Cory. I would assume that there would be many UK schools that would allow graduate level courses to be taken indefinitely, not towards a degree, as I work on an MTh somewhere else (or at the same school), if I wanted to craft the coursework around what I'm researching... Would you concur?

cg

 

the other thing is...

Since I already have an MA, I really want to pursue something higher to get a "higher degree." I have been advised of this by others who I respect, and I pretty much agree. So that rules out the BA Hons, perhaps the BD or MDiv (probably but not certainly), and any DL MA that may be offered. This is because I have pretty much got the impression that any BD (even U of Lon) would be something of a "step down." So that basically leaves me with a few options:

1.) Find an MTh that I like, with the coursework requirements that I want, and all the gloppy prestige that Bill Grover reminds me "doesn't make the man" (too true). At a place I can frequent when I am able (minimal res. req.). Or create courses that will accompany my research that won't be busywork that I've already done.

2.) Bill Grover's suggestion #1: get a DMin. then a PhD or simultaneously.

3.) Bill Grover's suggestion #2: propose a PhD topic that combines the two disciplines, academic theology and OT (where my training is).

Thanks Guys. As far as I can tell, it boils down to this.

This post is getting HUGE. I will probably be a prestigious "senior member" before I can make a decision here! If that's the case, I won't need to go to an Ivy league school anymore. I'll just put on my resume "DegreeInfo--SENIOR MEMBER."

 

Actually, that's a mistake and I appreciate you pointing it out. I do not believe that the BA(Hons) is equivalent to an American M.Div. and certainly not a Th.M. This statement came from the description of The Evangelical Theological College of Wales BA(Hons) degree program which I drew from their Web site and obviously didn't edit sufficiently. I have updated the working on the international programs page to avoid such confusion in the future. (Special thanks to Tom Head who tried to make me look good despite my mistake.)

I do think that one can argue that the B.D. is equivalent to the M.Div. since there was a time that the standard professional ministerial credential in the United States was a Bachelor of Divinity degree. If I recall, it is actually a relatively recent occurrence that this became a Master of Divinity degree and often involved nothing more than changing the degree name. The Th.M., as a research degree with an M.Div. (or presumably B.D.) prerequisite, is another animal entirely.

I'm interested in seeing whether some non-U.S. programs that make a major push for American distance learners rename their B.D. as an M.Div. for marketing purposes. Although each are first professional degrees, American students tend to view the B.D. as something less than an M.Div. because the latter is a "higher" master's degree.

Jason D. Baker
http://www.bakersguide.com

 

thanks Bill

I appreciate your comments and research, Bill.

I'll look into western if I do the MDiv. I have many, many friends in Portland, and I actually went to Western for three semesters several years ago. I have good friends there, so if I did the MDiv, that would be a prime candidate.

I'm moving to Bakersfield, though. So I'm looking more closely at Talbot and Fuller. Bakersfield, my friend, is the reason why I'm looking so intently at DL. Everything is two hours away. My wife and I are moving next week, so I hope this discussion forum gets resolved before then! But for now, I'm pursuing a teaching credential, and I'll be postponing the Theo. study for about 6 to 12 months while we decide.

Chris

 

Re: thanks Bill

+++++++++++++++++++++++

But..but.. if you already have the 30 units residency then you could finish DL . Why would anyone not?? A Mdiv from Western certainly is NOT going to mess up any doc aspirations from being fulfilled and likely would enhance your marketability!!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

Bill

You are more full of interesting ideas that I have at the present. Here's the plan. Since i'm moving, you can just have my old Illinois driver's liscence, a xerox copy of my transcripts and VOILA! You can make all of my decisions for me

 

Re: Bill

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You're right! Us old guys like to live our lives over in you young guys, and get pushy! And we see time as more limited too!

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Honestly

Honestly, though, bill, these are very helpful suggestions. Thanks for the help! I'll keep you updated on how it goes.

cg

 

That will be great, thanks.

 

Spurgeon degrees

Cory is quite right in all observations. However, be aware that Spurgeon degrees are all awarded/validated by the University of Wales via its 'validation/affiliation' unit. Wales has a good reputation in the field of theology.

'telfax'

 

If you want a really diverse resume, you may--as a Chicago resident--be interested in Spertus College's optional-residency M.S. in Jewish Studies.

And the Spurgeon's Th.M. is indeed the only non-U.S. distance learning Th.M. I've heard Steve specifically speak kindly of, though of course whether or not he thinks kindly of other programs is for him to say. I believe NIFI dealt only with U.S. based programs, but (if memory serves) Steve's major concern about non-U.S. distance learning Th.M.'s is that they tend to have looser admissions requirements--e.g. a B.A. in Religion would probably get you into most overseas DL Th.M. programs, while in the States you need an M.Div. or a good case for loose equivalency.

The Spurgeon's Th.M. is actually awarded by the University of Wales, if memory serves, but I'd check with the school to make sure.


Cheers,

 

Re: okay, thanks

Christopher,

I'm not so sure this would prove to be the case. Some institutions may allow you to take courses without having been accepted into one of their degree programs. Others, however, may not. You'd have to explore this on a case by case basis.

Cory Seibel

 

Re: Spurgeon degrees

All quite true.