Aspen University

Yes, but. . .

The comparably priced RA degrees are from places like Amberton and mid-Western state schools. A big concern for many state school attendees would be the lack of flexibility and pace baked into the academic calendar. You have to wait for set calendar dates to enroll, start, etc. and there are usually numerous breaks in state school calendars which may or may not be advantageous.

 

Fair point, though don't forget WGU.

 

This thread is old from when they were less expensive, my wife looked at them some time ago but we went another direction after a brief enrollment...

 

This is a bad thing?

Considering that the wife and I both have master's from mid-Western state schools, I am a bit of a fan of them.

 

There seems to be an endless debate over whether something is NA or RA. Frankly, as an overseas person, nobody outside the US cares that much. Maybe in academia where there are some who are more conversant with the US accreditation. When employers in my country think "accreditation", they think government. There is no concept of private accreditation here. US DOE acknowledgement would be enough.

I would like to see more debate about the merits of the institution based upon things other than NA or RA. People can make their own choice about that. There is plenty written on it and most seem to be polarized around one totem or the other. I am more interested in course content, effectiveness of tuition, pricing, accessibility and other customer service issues. Aspen appears to tick some boxes on those criteria. Are there better, no doubt, and are there worse, absolutely. It is all relevant to how you are situated.

Maybe we need our own criteria by which universities can be measured and forget the accreditation issues. As said, there has been plenty said about it and people can make their own choice. BTW I have three degrees. Two Masters would be considered the equivalent of RA and the undergraduate is RA. I am doing another Masters which is NA because it fits my particular needs.

 

"Overseas" is a big, complex place. Some universities in some countries will not accept degrees from U.S. schools that are not regionally accredited. Employers may not make that distinction, but employers are also the central cause of the diploma mill industry: they're not discerning consumers. This explains why so many degree mills would set up in less-rigorous states and sell primarily to overseas customers.

With a population of more than 300 million, the U.S. is a big place, too. Here, this distinction matters even more.

Good. Start one.

BTW, the NA/RA debates here almost always start when someone wants to overstate the value (or understate the limitations) of NA degrees. The "DETC bashers" don't start threads in order to rip DETC. And they don't stalk threads and posts that mention NA schools in order to start a rant. These conversations only go one way because the issue is, really, rather settled. Not everyone has accepted that, though.

All of which sound like fascinating discussion topics.

One of the biggest challenges on a discussion board like this is, what can we observe and measure together in order to discuss these things? If I take, for example, an MBA from one school, I've essentially excluded my ability to observe and measure all other MBA (or master's, in most cases, because most people take just one) programs. Still, it would be a worthy effort.

 

Here is what I would like to see discussed when colleges/universities are being considered:
The degrees offered:
1. The description of the programs and their relevance to industry and self development. Basically who are these degrees designed for and what quality are they?;
2. The description of the contents of the courses in each program, prescribed texts (if possible). A critique of course content against industry standards or other academic criteria. Is the content dated, pseudoscience, or esotoric;
3. The experience and credentials of the professors. Have the professors published in peer reviewed journals/conferences? Is there extensive industry experience or some other notable factor? The university that the professor earned his/her highest degree at is not necessarily as relevant as what the professor has done with it. Bill Gates, for example, does not have a degree apart from honorary ones (as far as I know), yet I would gladly sign to a class taught by him in business or computers because of his experience and expertise;
4. Flexibility of instruction for working people, inclusive of the methodology of instruction (the soundness of the teaching method is a critical point and illustrates professionalism in education). Is there proper feedback to students and marking are the very basic starting points I would have thought;

5. The longevity potentiate of the college/university. Nobody wants to start something and see it vanish before their eyes because of a poor business model;

6. Past student feedback on the usefulness of the education in respect of their lives. What did the education at that college do for them in real terms rather than motherhood statements;

7. What does the college do for its alumni? Does it just issue degrees and forget people or it does it encourage an ongoing relationship with the college and other graduates?

8. Brand recognition - less important for me, but not so for others trying to get traction in some employment. The individual's situation in life is the factor here. My professional ability is established and I am judged on that, not on my university. People with less professional life may be judged more on their potentiate due to their academic life and brand may be important here. There is a sliding scale of relevance here;

9. Pricing - Very important. There is a cost benefit ratio to education. If the price is too high then we will go to the library or Utube. Nobody wants to pay ist tier university prices for online education. The very concept of online learning indicates a lower cost structure and most people participating in it have other priorities for their money;

10. Customer service - Distance learning is often challenging in terms of motivation and nothing demotivates more than an unresponsive customer service centre. It would be interesting to see how colleges seek to keep their students supported through a very demanding process of self motivation. Dropout rates here are important. Are students just left on their own? If not, what is done and how effective/efficient is it?

Not all these criteria are of equal weight and how one weighs them is highly subjective, but perhaps some agreed weighting could be integrated into the process. Anyway, that is my shot at the title. I would be interested to hear from others. I am sure that experience on this board can do better than this.

 

So do it. See who comes along.

 

I had, and I'm an alumni. What happens to your brain when it gets too busy.

You forget the notion of "not built here" when it comes to some local picking hiring folks. A known DETC school close by might actually have more name recognition value than an RA school in the Midwest no one has heard of.

Worse, in areas such as California, you may see some odd name scrutiny based on local lack of literacy. For example, there's a community college named Chadron in Southern California, so you could confuse some people here if you list a Master's from Chadron State College in Nebraska.

Peru State College? Some Californians would say "Peru. . . that's a state? I thought it was a country."

Amberton and these I've named are definitely solid schools, but they might garner some odd looks here in the Southwest.

 

"Alumnus" or "alumna." "Alumni" is plural. (And no, this isn't nitpicking; the term is very relevant to the board's subject and purpose.)

No way. No way at all. Uh, uh. Nope. By the very nature of their business--DL--DETC-accredited schools will have almost NO local reputation or footprint. They won't do local advertising, for example, or anything else that would raise their local profile. And why should they? Geographic proximity isn't an advantage here--local customers are no more likely to enroll than are customers elsewhere.

On the other hand, the local B&M university will have a higher profile and greater footprint merely by operating. It will have a larger local population of alumni than will the DETC-accredited school (likely operating out of a business office or suite), and will be engaged with other local civic activities. Parents will consider sending their children there and local working folks will consider continuing their education at the local campus.

If there is a DETC-accredited school with a strong local presence in its community, I'd like to know it. Or, closer to your point, which DETC-accredited school would have "more name recognition value" than an RA school? Is there even one that the average walking around person has ever heard of? (My guess for leading candidate: Concord.)

Finally, my research showed that even a fake school with a real-sounding name would be more acceptable to employers than a DETC-accredited school. Employers will have heard of neither one, but they'll think they know the fake school. Hence Ron Pellar's brilliance for naming his diploma mill "Columbia State University." In my study, that diploma mill was more acceptable than the DETC-accredited entry (and every other school in my lineup except one, a real state university I threw into the mix).

 

You could maybe make a case for Catholic Distance University. CDU was originally established by the Diocese of Arlington; it is now open to students worldwide, but it still offers discounted tuition to students from the Arlington diocese specifically (rather like the in-state tuition discounts typically offered by state universities). Given these historical and economic factors, CDU has particularly strong "brand awareness" among the Catholic community in northern Virginia, and draws a disproportionate number of students from that area.

I don't have their enrollment numbers to back that up, it's just something I've heard. But it seems reasonable.

Even the CDU example is valid, though, it would be an exceptional case. In general, I would agree that DETC schools have little or no local reputation.

Perhaps, but even then, Concord is also RA. It is now part of Kaplan University, and is included as an "out-of-state" campus under Kaplan's regional accreditation from HLC-NCA.

 

They're outside of Leesburg, VA. Funny, I've lived 20 miles from there for 15 years and never knew they were in this area. And I have a, ahem, keen interest in such matters. It might be known among the Catholic community (of which I am not a part, no matter what they try to tell me on the baptism certificate), but not in general. They never appear in anything local--TV, radio, conferences, colloquia, nothing.

 

Sure they do. For example, one of their deans was a speaker at the 2011 Diocesan Catechetical Conference in Reston. They have annual Gala Events in Arlington to honor prominent local Catholics. And they offer DL programs specifically tailored to the needs of the local Arlington Diocese, like this one and this one.

But realistically, CDU's outreach efforts and academic programs are targeted specifically to committed Catholics. If you aren't a member of that community, then no, there's probably no reason for you to be aware of their activities.

 

Let me clarify: they don't do anything significant outside of Catholic-centric events, which don't seem to be raising their local profile one iota.

 

I find it such a shame that so many people trash distance learning as a whole.

I previously served in the U.S. Navy for ten years. When I graduated high school, I didn't have the discipline or grades to go to college, so I enlisted. My first four years gave me my GI Bill, the following six were just a bonus. After two deployments (one before and one after 9/11), I was finally able to start college. Problem was I had two toddlers and one on the way. I finished most of my coursework before going on my third deployment in 2006. Forgive me for not being able to attend B&M schools while deployed to the Gulf, or even while serving on shore duty while trying to be a father. Thankfully, UoP gave me that chance to complete my degree while across the globe.

I have been out for nearly six years, but I am still a father of three and full-time public servant. I don't have a myriad of free time to sit in a classroom several times a week. DL gives me the opportunity to work on coursework, stop, spending time with family, and finish my work at a pace consistent with the working world. On the recent promotional boards, it was my degree that put me over the top of other candidates. I currently work for a B&M school, and even had the Dean of Students, who is not in my chain of command, provide a reference letter to attend Aspen.

I received my AA and BSCJA from UoP, continued to AMU to do my MACJ, and now am doing my EdD at Aspen. FYI, I have had no issues with teaching higher education (traditional) with this background.

By all means, do your research and ensure that the school has accreditation, but even the VA recognizes DL as a viable alternative to traditional education, now authorizing a 50% BAH rate under the revised Chapter 33 benefit. Do you know why they added this, years after the initial Post 9/11 GI Bill was authorized? Outcry from service members who also could not pack up and sit in a building.

I am starting my fifth and sixth class at Aspen (nearly 45 total DL classes completed since 2003) and have been satisfied with the quality of the education, something my parents never got to experience.

 

It's not DL the critics in this thread are after; it's nationally-accredited schools such as Aspen.

I would say, once you finish your Ed.d and find satisfactory employment, you should post to the DegreeInfo Success Stories thread.

 

To suggest people are "after" NA schools is both perjorative and wrong. The criticisms leveled regarding such matters are normally around two topics: (1) people understating the limitations of such degrees and (2) the inadequacies of DETC (in particular) regarding the application of their own standards. At almost no time are people ripping into specific schools, and for good reason.

As for individual successes, they are to be expected from graduates of NA schools.

This is a strawman.

 

That's pejorative, Rich, from the Latin "peior," meaning worse. Not perjorative - nothing to do with perjury :smile: And if you can seize upon "Alumnus, -i, Alumna, -ae," then you're fair game on this one - I'm not nitpicking either! :sad:

I've re-read it all - and I'll concede your point about the nature of criticism of NA in this thread - but you have to admit there are lots of other RA vs. NA threads where some posters are definitely "after" NA. I'm sure you, I and PeteDude have seen lots of 'em.

As I see it, both "pejorative" and "wrong" come in degrees. This example is maybe a "1" on the Richter scale, tops.

Johann

 

Gee, thanks for fixing my irrelevant typo. The last bastion of nonsense in discussion threads.

(Gosh, I hope I spelled "nonsense" correctly, because that seems to be the most relevant part.)

 

So when Rich makes an error it's an "irrelevant typo." When he spots someone else's, it's a big thing. Typical. Hmph! :sad:

Johann