Are RA DL flash-in-the-pan schools sub-standard?

I think this is the entire discussion - some (not you obviously by your posting) that there is not a difference in quality between the accreditations. I think you stated perfectly there are tradeoffs, and that is it.

 

Of course - I think we'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would state that their UoP degree was anywhere near on par with one from Yale, Harvard, or Duke.

What an RA degree from UoP or similar gives a student is an RA degree; which, by all account IS the gold standard for an undergrad degree.

 

True. RA seems to be the foundation accreditation upon which all others are built. However, there seems to be such a wide assortment of universities that are RA that aside from indicating it is not a "degree mill", its usefulness in questionable to determine quality.

 

I would say that it would depend on the major, hence the need for the professional accreditation.

 

Absolutely. If you are to pursue a business degree, you would get the most "bang for the buck" if you get one from an AACSB accredited school.

For this case, AACSB would be the "gold standard", not RA, which would default to the "silver standard" or maybe "bronze standard" if you consider that other business accreditor.

 

Really? Although I do agree that AACSB does indicate a greater standard to a certain extent, but how do you explain highly ranked schools that do not have AACSB ranking?

For example, Moorehead State I believe has AACSB, but Tanaka Business school (Imperial College) and York University in Canada Schulich, do not. I would be hard pressed to find one person that believes the former's educational quality is greater than the latter?

Out of curiousity, what credence, if any, do you give to international accreditations such as AMBA and EQUIS in Europe? I am interested in hearing your opinion.

 

York University and Imperial College are Memers of AACSB, although they are not accredited (yet). The general assumption if that members are seeking to obtain accreditation.

AMBA and EQUIS are high quality accreditors in Europe. In fact, the highest prestige that a business school can have in Europe is called the "triple crown" of accreditation: AACSB, AMBA and EQUIS.

Several international business schools have this prestigious accreditation:

Henley Management College (UK)
Manchester Business School (UK)
Open University Business School (UK)
Aston Business School (UK)
Grenoble Ecole de Management (France)
EDHEC Business School (France)
Warwick Business School (UK)
HEC Montreal (Canada)
Brisbane Graduate School of Business (Australia)
Audencia Ecole de Management (France)

These are the only ones I know off the top of my head....

Less than 1% of business schools in the world hold "triple accreditation". About 25 business schools out of around 3500 worldwide have been "triple accredited".

As you can see, AACSB, EQUIS and AMBA is very international... even based on the small sample I listed.

 

From the article:

HOW BUSINESS SCHOOLS LOST THEIR WAY., By: Bennis, Warren G., O'Toole, James, Harvard Business Review, 00178012, May2005, Vol. 83, Issue 5

My favorite quote:

Emphasis mine

 

About the authors of HOW BUSINESS SCHOOLS LOST THEIR WAY


Warren Bennis

http://www.marshall.usc.edu/web/MOR.cfm?doc_id=3021

is University Professor and Distinguished Professor of Business Administration at the Marshall School and Founding Chairman of The Leadership Institute at the University of Southern California. He is also Visiting Professor of Leadership at the University of Exeter and a Fellow of the Royal Society of the Arts (UK).



James O'Toole

http://www.jamesotoole.com/

is Research Professor in the Center for Effective Organizations at the University of Southern California. He is also the Mortimer J. Adler Senior Fellow of the Aspen Institute.



The University of Southern California is considered to be a Top 30 school.

Compare the thoughts of the above authors to what you read here at Degreeinfo.

Interesting!

Are schools that use real-world instructors "flash in the pans" or the shape of things to come?

 

So Carlos, for someone who thinks practitioners have all the answers, why are you putting so much weight on the advice of distinguised researchers?

IMO, all education derives benefit from both the practical and research oriented aspects of graduate programs. However, if you aspire to be a CEO who needs any advantage they can get to compete against various forces in the market, I believe you definitely will want to know about the cutting edge research going on, information that instructors comming from industry would have little opportunity to know and understand.

Compare the thoughts of posters here a DegreeInfo and the thoughts about most people and you will find a good deal of similarity.

Interesting!

 

Why, because it is so easy to research topics. Making it work in the real world is a different story.

Many here are full time instructors or wannabees. I expect that they will defend their turf, right or wrong.

In the finest art of research I cite my references, something many here do not. So, for some specifics, what part of the following quotes from the article are incorrect and why?

1. Businesspeople are starting to sense that individuals in the academy are not engaged in the same profession they practice. Employers are noticing that freshly minted MBAs, even those from the best schools -- in some cases, especially those from the best schools -- lack skills their organizations need.


2. Some of the research produced is excellent, but because so little of it is grounded in actual business practices, the focus of graduate business education has become increasingly circumscribed -- and less and less relevant to practitioners.

 

Re: Re: Program Accreditation

Why not the others?


The AACSB allows Pacific Western University to claim it is an "Educational Member Institution"

http://pwunews.com/pwu/index.html

PWU is NOT accredited by any member of CHEA or the DoEd

The ACBSP requires all members to be Regionally accredited if located in the US

http://www.acbsp.org/index.php?mo=st&op=ld&sid=s1_027join&stpg=7

What specific AACSB standard or guideline is superior to the ACBSP?

 

Carlos,

I think that the differences in professional accreditation would be best for another thread, as there seems to already be several tangents alreaady on this on. I have some knowledge, but it would be very interesting to discuss and get others perspectives.

I feel you may also be taking this discussion personally, rather than a discussion about a topic of accreditation / schools - comments like "wannabe's" shows that there may some emotion, which hopefully we can get back to a discussion, without it going downhill.

Lastly, if someone does post, without a citation, it might be considered their opinion, which I think we are all entitled to. I find it ironic that you are citing a researcher on why researching is not important for faculty...... I personally believe (opinion here, based on past experience, not any particular research) that it takes BOTH practical knowledge and researach to make a quaity professor, as well as an educational background.

1. Doctoral degree
2. Industry experience
3. Research experience

I think all of the three above makes for a good mix. You are stating that 2 and 2 alone is important? I am just trying to clarify. The person you have named again and again has all 3, and that is why I agree with you about him being of quality, but not for the reasons you do, unless I am missing it. I am unsure if you agree or not with 1, 2, & 3. That is where I think we may or may not agree - and the crux of my point. I guess that is my question to others, if you think all three are important. I think this is a key difference between RA and professional accreditors, but I think we need to get on the same page first on the three above criteria.

 

Wannabe was wrong to use. My mistake.

My personal beliefs are (in importance)

1. Industry experience
2. Research experience
3. Doctoral degree

I would much rather have an instructor with good industry\research experience and a tier 4 degree than an inexperienced one with a tier one degree.

I have met many Nova Southeastern U DBAs (my business is in South Florida and I live there) that I thought were terrific. Excellent instructors and\or business people. Plenty of real world experience.

To hear that they have been turned down for full-time teaching positions due only to lack of AACSB is one of the reasons I investigated.

But you are right. This belongs in another thread and hopefully we can discuss it when I return from West Florida on business.

 

When you say, in importance, do you believe that all three should not be minimum requirements for a full time position?

Take the example that is found throughout the thread, UoP has 90-95% MBA's with experience, not Doctorates, nor researchers. I think that all three are requirements, so the RA standard does not necessitate enough quality standards, in my opinion. AACSB does look at all three criteria.

 

Supposed to, yes, but many Ph.D. programs, particularly in business and education, have some pretty questionable research standards.

 

I think the definition varies dramatically between institutions. They can vary in a number of variables:

1. number of publishings per year
2. published in a double blind process
3. "Grade" of publication

These vary greatly.

 

There are plenty of nurses out there doing nursing research. That's why my profession is drowning in paperwork.

I want an instructor who can point me to the research and help me interpret it. I don't care if she's the one who actually did the research. Would it be helpful to me to have an instructor who's completed research on pediatric mesothelioma when I'm trying to learn about advances in intraaortic balloon pump therapy? Probably not.

I had many, many classes taught by TAs in undergrad school. Also many classes with 400-800 students. Your #1 skill if you're going to have 800 students had better be communication of the subject matter.

 

WOW!! Was it a DL class, or in classroom. If it was in classroom, that would be incredible - did you ever get to talk to the instructor?