Any Update on Touro

I couldn't get the link to work.

 

Dr. Okonkwo raised this issue before and I responded. You need to read that response and read the MSA web site again. It does list Touro as awarding the doctorate degree. Unlike AACSB which specifically say Greenoble was accredited for Masters only not the doctorate. There is a difference.

 

Here is an e-mail from the source (I didn't want to go on heresay, but they responded quickly, and here it is:

"Touro College (and its branch campus, Touro University) were placed on probation by the Middle States Commission on Higher Education at its meeting in November 2003. Institutions retain their accredited status while on probation.
Touro is on the Commission's agenda for review of that probationary status at its meeting on June 23-24, 2004. Please contact us after July 1 to learn the results of that action. (We do not release commission decisions to the public until the institution has had a chance to review it.)"

Looks like we are getting close!

 

Wrong. Go to their website, they have two categories for doctoral accreditation
1. Doctoral / Research - Extensive
2. Doctoral / Research - Intensive

Touro was not classified as either, their category was "Master's I"

Selective reading maybe?

It is intersting it works one way when it is not your school, but another when it is.

 

The problem I have with AACSB and the likes whose program accreditation leads to no professional certification or registration is they have become a money making scheme. Instead of accrediting an overall program, they have moved into program as well as specialty accreditation. This looks like duplication to me. For example, they now accredit accounting. Isn't accounting part of business? It is interesting they accredit accounting but they are not the premier accounting licensing authority? What value is that? Again, I am not against additional accreditations a school might pursue. I am only against anyone who thinks those not graduating from such schools some how got less education than they did. There is absolutely no truth to such assertion.

 

In this case, you are the one having selective reading. Again, go to their web site and read. I am not going to do the reading for you. I don't know what you are talking about with reference to "your school". I am even handed when it comes to addressing educational issues. You have never read me saying my school is better than any other or that one program accreditation is superior to any other. I just don't do such a thing. I believe any regional accredited degree is the same to any other. There are those who do not share such belief but they do not have to impose it on me or any other person. The work place and personal achievments are always the arena that seperates the men/women from the boys/girls.

As usual, the weekend is coming and I need to enjoy the last weekend before my classes begin Monday. I do not normally have the time to engage on forum debate while school is on. If you do not hear from me have a wonderful next twelve weeks. I will be back in September unless of course my attention is drawn privately to a serious burning issues such as Touro accreditation.

 

Good job Han, this is exactly what I want you and others to do instead of spewing innuendoes. This is not different from what I have been saying. Wait ill Jluy although it should become public as soon as possible. Have a great weekend and see you in this lively forum in September. Oops see you in July to "tear' apart my institution in the unlikely event they don't make it.

 

Thanks, though I didn't realize you thought I did this as an assignment from you. This is only one part of this discussion

The decision in July is not different from what I was saying either, they are still on probation, and it is not a good thing. You started the thread off in the beginning saying it would be a good thing, and never have responded, the selective reading thing again (unless you would like to respond to it after 3 inquiries).

You are confusing two issues. One is the issue about what will happen in July, which we will wait and see (as I found out from the source itself).

The other is how this has made a lasting impact, even if they get the accredtation back. Not only for the particular school, but for DL. Other disucssion on this thread is What issues come up with probation, how they are reacting / improving their program to get it back, etc.

As you stated "my school" above.

Also, it is not tearing it apart, it is stating facts, but if you think it has brought down your institution that much, that is your issue, not mine.

On another note, how do you think TUI will present the issues in July, either way. I think, either way, they will be low key about it, becuase if they lose it for good, it will be disasterous. If they get off probation, though a win, they don't want to publize too much that they were ever one probation, as it is never a good thing. Anybody else have thoughts about the "press release" that will be coming, either way.

 

I can't find what doucment you refer, but I did the research and found the EXACT quote from above. The link will not paste, but from the main page, From the main site, http://www.msache.org/
go to members, and put in the search field Touro, the school comes up and it says "Master's I"

They are not classified as a doctoral school. If you provide the document you reference, I can review it, but between the information from the website, and a report you are not able to refernce or supply, I have to side on the information from the accreditor.

(I do believe that the website is a typo, but you stated previously about "another" school that it could not possibly be that it was a typo and the program was not accredited, just trying to prove the point that premises and logic changes when it is the school that one attends, versus a school that one is just talking about in general. - I know both are typos.).

 

What is a top tier school for goodness sake? I don't believe in them. I don't believe in school ratings. I don't believe in hospital ratings. It is impossible to rate them. The only ratings I believe in are the number of graduates passing their CPA, RN, ABA, etc on their first attempt. Any other ratings are irrelevant. May be it is because I work with too many of the so called top tier graduates and have found them not any different from graduates of your local colleges. It is true. The difference between the so called top tier and the non top tier is the time it takes to get the FIRST job. That's all. Over time, the earnings are potentially the same. I make the same money with every "top tier school" graduate that work in my environment. We are required to produce the same amount of work.

I know of no employer that requires AACSB except yours and perhaps a handful of schools. I say handful since only less than 500 schools worldwide are AACSB program accredited and they are not all necessarily leaders in their field either in terms of my suggested measures above. No wonder AACSB is being creative to make money such as accrediting individual programs. Since you work for a defense contractor, I dare say it is not necessarily true that they only hire AACSB graduates. Since I have experience with defense contractors, I know how it works around that industry.

No it is not "99% of the others" as you alluded. It is perhaps less than 5%, if that much. It is like saying 99% of employers discriminates on hiring based on race when it is perhaps probably only less than 5% of employers that do. That is not enough to say that when you are black or of other minority, you can't be hired. Think about it. Have a wonderful weekend again.

 

Although certain professions like accountants, registered nurses and medical doctors have licenses that can be used as a quality standard, it is not the case for most of the professions. You don't need to believe in anything, there are quite few MBA reports that show a high correlation between salaries and reputation of the MBA school. These are facts, just see the study above

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2003/09/24/bschooland.html

According to the study (the site also describe the study and it seems quite rigorous to me)in average, a Harvad MBA graduated in 1998 made 195K in in 2002 while a graduate from George Washintong graduated in the same year made an average of 76K


Would you say that rankings are irrelevant?

The study is only made for the top 75 schools of the world, but I wonder how a low tier DL instituion would rank in a similar study. Of course, these are statistics and you may argue that some people do fantastic with a low tier
degree but the argument is about perfomance in average and not for particular cases.


Also I believe that this does not mean that an individual cannot teach at Harvard with a TUI degree, but most of the top people are attracted to top schools. Harvard is Harvard not because they have the best course curriculum, it is because they have the best people. Harvard can afford to open a PhD in Elvis theory and still be the best in the world because they would attract the best in the field.

 

You raised very interesting points I have been making all along for over a year. Once you are academically and or professionally at the top of your profession you can teach virtually anywhere. Harvard and other ivy leagues schools do it all the time. In the early 90s, Harvard recruited Spike Lee to teach for a year or so at the school. Many historically black institutions raised eyebrows and Mr. Lee shot back and said "you never asked". The point is these schools recruit those with high professional and government experience to teach long and short terms. While the rest of us fuss over unnecessary issues.

When I lived in Boston area, I often read where Harvard University often admits people with significant industry and business experience (who otherwise ordinarily would not be admitted) into their school just for their experience. It is one thing to publish something in a job requirements and it is another issue in the selection process. An employer once told me not to worry about the deadline on their job announcement when I expressed interest on the job. I was simply told to email my CV in. This was not an old boy’s network. I have never had one.

Dr. Bear’s book alluded to the fact that schools often say one thing publicly but do another privately or through some unannounced arrangements. I have seen enough of "arrangements" in my professional life to know most of the cursory things said on this are different in reality. Have a great one.

 

Yes, a CEO from a fortune company would be a perfect candidate for an executive MBA program. But how many CEOs from fortune companies making 200K+ would go for a 60K job unless they are retired?

Job requirements are flexible when it comes to exeptions like this. But how many of us are exceptional people working as a CEO for a 500 fortune company? The regular Joe Blow has to be armed with the best he can to conquer the world.

 

No, there are more issues than "This being a positive thing", so I think others would like to see what happens. Also, I have never seen a school on probation, so would like to disucss the ramifications. Your poitn is noted, you think it is a good thing, others may differ in opinion.

Lies, and Lies (sorry so blunt, but after telling you the facts, with links, you shouldbe ashamed of yourself for this posting). Think what you want, I gave several examples to you about the errors on the website, but selective reading again.

I did my homework and investigated from the source, I have my e-mail from AACSB, so you should try to make accurate statements -why not try the same and get the information accurate before you spew out inaccuracies. (And once you do, not that I expect you to, since it won't help your case, you can apologize for telling flat out lies about a school). Shame on you.

I have always appreciated your opinions, up to this point, but you are trying to lie about one school to hide the fact that another is on probation AND IT IS NOT A GOOD THING! Shame on you again.

 

Exactly.

 

A DL doctorate is about the only route for a top exec that may want to retire and teach full time. Nova, NCU etc offer decent RA degrees. Yet according to some here there are many schools that REQUIRE AACSB for instructors. Most be demotivating!

I looked into Touro a while back. Found a discussion where someone was complaining that there are too many military and government employees in the business program. I decided against the Touro MBA for other reasons.

I would be honored to have the military as fellow students.

Just my opinion

 

This is what I found interesting about business school accreditation.

What is the point? Quality? A business school dean needs a Regional Accrediting agency AND a professional accrediting agency to tell him\her how to do their job? The average business school dean can't figure out how to implement quality on their own?

If they need that much hand holding they certainly would not make it in my business world

Amazing, simply amazing!

How much must a business school pay for the honor of being told what to do????

Just my opinion

 

I would think that it would be waived, if it was a top executive, and wanted to teach full time. Do you think they would even need to go to the additional schooling. I think they would probably get an "honorary" Doctrate and be good to go.

 

Han, two questions to answer please ...

Han,

Just a couple of questions ...

1. What is your background, as to
what school(s) do you represent
or are active as a student at?

2. When will you begin your ranting
about Auburn, as I recall they too
are undergoing some RA issues?

You seem to have quite an axe to
grind with TUI ... if that's not true,
then please conduct yourself in a
similar fashion regarding Auburn too.

Looking forward to your reply ...

Billy
TUI Learner