Would you teach at a diploma mill?

Haha, not a shill at all. I've taken online classes at Tennessee Tech, Arkansas State, UT Martin, Columbia Southern, Excelsior, Roane State Community College, and now Liberty. Arkansas State and TTU was the only two I didn't complete a degree or cert at, but each helped to complete my bachelors. If you're a shill I would have no idea what you would call me lol.

The housing situation is all on you. There are a number of hotels that are close, most reasonably priced. If you want more info PM me and I will give you my email.

 

Cool, thanks. I don't have to think about the intensives until summer. So I'll procrastinate for a while!

Are you a teacher?

 

I teach 6-8th Special Education. I'll be there this summer as well. I have two more on campus intensives before I start my dissertation course. You teach as well?

 

Speaking of MI, my 15 year old son plays a very mean electric bass guitar. He's self taught and has been playing for about 18 months. He went to his 1st lesson last Friday. His teacher, who was the advanced bass guitar teacher and played a few years ago in a couple of the University of Minnesota Duluth bands, stopped his evaluation after 15 minutes, gave me back the lesson $, and said, "He's better than me."

Now he is starting to think music school, and MI and McNally Smith come to mind. We're thinking of visiting both schools in the Spring.

Shawn

 

Yep, I teach computer science and music at a Jr. high. Maybe I'll run into you at one of the intensives at Liberty.

 

I know nothing of McNally Smith, but I can say that my time at MI was very productive and informative. My skills grew tremendously there. Plus, I was able to interact with a number of the pros from the music and film industry in Hollywood. It was a valuable experience, but it was also intimidating to be around so many fantastic players. Made me feel very small. However, I gained knowledge there that I used to make my living playing guitar for a number of years in my younger days.

One warning though: Music makes a fantastic hobby, but it makes a terrible career.

 

Yea, I know...

What I have been trying to pitch to my son is to grab an AS in business before he chases the music career, so he'll have something to fall back on. But at the same time, if he wants the music career, I will let him chase his dream...

 

Well, would you teach at one then?

Personally I would not but would consider teaching at an unaccredited school on a case by case basis.

 

Actually, Bill, Kennedy-Western/Warren National is probably the best example, since, as Michael has observed, most diploma mills offer no instruction at all, but award degrees based on "experience" (real or fabircated) with no assessment of knowledge whatsoever. I remember being at a conference where a "Dean" from K-W was showcasing a course (like a poster session, but with a laptop computer). Knowing about this institution, I thought that it was a pretty bold move, so I had the person take me through the course. She was pretty enamored by the fact that K-W was legit because its courses were in Blackboard (which I found rather amusing).

The course itself featured minimal course objectives (mostly written in non-measurable terms, such as "students will appreciate," "students will understand," etc.), no discussion forums, no practice/feedback activities and nothing that resembled actual instruction. The entire course consisted of having students read a chapters in a text and then take an open-book test, in which they must score at least 70% to pass the course. Students who scored less than 70% could re-take the test as many times as needed until they passed. That's it--one "final exam" per course.

The other two people who witnessed the "showcase" were as underwhelmed as I.

The fact that K-WU/WNU has gone out of business, when it was one of the most agressive marketing forces on the Internet is, perhaps, an indicator that the best business model for a diploma mill is the single individual running the "university" our of his or her home, using mail forwarding services and contracted telemarketers, rather than trying to maintain a staff of "professors" and "staff."

 

I am going to serve as a Nation's University proctor for an inmate at the County Jail. I gave some materials to a member of my congregation who is there. He wasn't interested, but he passed along the info to another inmate who is.

My take on Nation's U is that they are trying to become accredited, and I am willing to help someone sitting in jail learn something.

Shawn

 

A lot of people like to sit around and talk (or type) about doing something that can really help people in a tangible way. You are doing something about it. Kudos to you.

 

Another very cool thing Shawn A is doing.

 

This is fascinating. Since the "exams" were online, they were probably graded and scored automatically. So this would require no facilitator; that is the format I would expect from a diploma mill. It's interesting that their operation would offer an extremely low overhead potential and yet they went out of business. I wonder what the "professors" actually did.

 

I serve as the Branch President for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints in my community (similar to a lay pastor). Because I am a pastor, I have pastoral privileges at the county jail.

The son of one of the congregation members is in jail. He told me that he was interested in taking some college classes, but didn't have the $. I provided him with the info on Nations U. He wasn't interested, but passed along the info to other inmates. Another inmate was interested. The jail staff passed that along to me. I dropped off the paperwork and I received a message that it is complete. I'll pick it up tomorrow, enroll the inmate, and set up with the jail staff when I will be available to proctor (it won't be by appt).

Shawn

 

That leads me to another question. If one were to work at a degree mill for a while and then subsequently attempt to get a regular teaching job, would the past experience ruin any chances of succeeding? Would the fact that they were at a mill sully their vita? I don't know, but I would expect that working for a mill would be the the kiss of death.

 

I have known more than one candidate who put Kennedy-Western teaching positions on the resumes and have witnessed tham not being selected. It made a difference. Now, if someone did not know the mill in questioned, maybe it would not play a factor. I also had a friend that taught at a "questionable" institution when he first started teaching. After he had taught for a couple of legit colleges, he took the first institution off his resume.

 

KWU/WNU required a "report" to be done for the degree. The "professors" got a flat fee to grade the report. I believe that this professor was also supposed to play the same role as the doctoral committee and doctoral advisor in a "real" school. My guess about them going out of business is that the owner apparently sold shares in the company when he applied for accreditation. So, my guess is that he took the big payoff and ran.

What is interesting to contemplate is whether or not the owner considered KWU/WNU a diploma mill or not. Based on the stories published in the Cheyenne Herald, The Cheyenne Herald my guess is that he didn't believe it to be a diploma mill. I'm sure he considered it more of a business than a school but, I'll guess that he thought he was offering a legitimate education. The educational corners being cut though put the place in the diploma mill category, IMHO.

 

Interesting info, thanks Bill. Since it did require a small amount of work, I could see how the owner might convince himself that the school was not a mill. I've never actually seen an official definition of what constitutes a degree mill. I'm sure there are a number of levels of gray area that are somewhere between a full blown mill and and a real school. That's brought up another question in my mind, think I'll start a thread to gather some info. Thanks.