World's most dark-minded serial killers

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by TeacherBelgium, May 11, 2021.

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  1. TeacherBelgium

    TeacherBelgium Active Member

    I'm reading a book about the world's most dark-minded serial killers.
    Ted Bundy is one of them.
    So disgusting how such an intelligent person could have become such a monster with no respect for morals and values.
    So disgusting what he did to these poor, innocent women.
    All because he had a complex about 1 woman in his life.
    Criminology remains such a fascinating field, yet so '' disgusting'' too sometimes.

    Yesterday Michel Fourniret died. He was one of the most monstrous killers Belgium and France have ever known.

    What I was wondering when I read it yesterday is what the doctor who had to treat him in his last hours felt.
    How could you provide someone who did such monstrous things with loving care.
    Then I wondered what funeral director would want to bury such a monster.
    Knowing what he did to these poor young girls.
    I feel bad for the people who have to deal with that person.
    You would want to throw it in the trash can, yet you have to give that thing a normal funeral like every other dead person because the law and ethics want it like that.
    Must be so hard.
    I hope he is in hell now. Even though I'm not religious, for people like that you wish there was a hell once they pass away.
     
  2. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    I used to work on a crisis line and apparently Bundy spent a while staffing one in Seattle as part of his Psychology degree. Nobody suspected anything about him, and a woman actually wrote a book about her year working with him.

    From the perspective of the funeral director, I think they acknowledge that even people who have done terrible things will grieve the loss of their son, or brother, or other family. It's still tough to bury a child. It's pretty horrifying what serial killers will do, I think it also must be terrible to be a family member of one of those people and have to live with the crime your child committed.
     
  3. RAM PhD

    RAM PhD Member

    Are there any light-minded serial killers?
     
  4. Rachel83az

    Rachel83az Member

    Depends on how you define serial killers. For instance: a rebel fighting against a horrific regime by assassinating people who are committing war crimes is technically a serial killer. But it could be argued that they are doing the morally correct thing and there is a good chance that they hate what they've been forced to do. That could be a "light-minded serial killer".
     
  5. TeacherBelgium

    TeacherBelgium Active Member

    I get what you mean.
    It must be tough for a family to bury a child that is seen as a monster by the rest of the world.
    Still, as a funeral director, having to touch such a horrible person. Having to wash them, prepare them for the visits etc. I can't imagine anyone wanting to touch someone like that.
    Still, I get what you mean. You don't want to stoop to the level that person was at, so you would want to give them a '' normal '' funeral.
    But still, I think you would also feel guilt as a funeral director when you arrange a service for a person like that. Knowing what such a terrible human being did to the family of the victim(s) etc.

    I was watching a TV program a couple weeks ago about crimes.
    One of these people killed a young woman and her child, as well as the family dog. He was a butcher. He cut them into pieces and put them in the garbage. They were incinerated on the waste belt.

    The poor family, the poor mother, that has to learn that her family members have been disposed of like that. I had tears in my eyes from even just thinking that someone could do that to another human being.
    And then that person should get a human treatment?
    I don't understand how anyone could touch such a terrible person with a 10 feet pole.


    I know it's not up to us to judge about someone's crimes but still... Some people are so terribly bad that treating them with even the least inkling of kindness feels like a crime an sich.

    Yesterday there was a trial here in Belgium about a guy who raped a drunk and drugged young woman, on the beach, in January 2017. It was winter. It was ice cold. He raped her, took pictures of her, tortured her and left her fighting for her life while taking pictures.
    The poor father had already buried a child, his wife and now his daughter.
    The family had to watch these images he took of her. The brother started vomiting and passed out during the trial.
    The monster who did this admitted he raped her but denied killing her.
    He said he put her body under the pear so that she would have it warmer. He said he wanted to be intimate with her because he was still a virgin.

    My blood boiled when I heard what such a terrible person comes up with as excuses. The poor family didn't even get answers.

    In such cases I wish we had a US model here. Execution for people like that.


    Here in Belgium life in prison means you can ask parole after 15 years in prison and then they see if it can be granted or not.

    We have had people who killed an entire family be liberated here again after 20 years or less in prison.
    I fully stand behind the US model in this regard. At least over there you don't have monsters like that walking around like a free man after less than 20 years in prison.

    For one murder the culprit here is usually sentenced to 30 years and can ask parole after 1/3th of his sentence was carried out.

    We have an awful law system for heavy crimes here in Belgium.
     
  6. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Wow. You should be more careful what you wish for.
     
  7. TeacherBelgium

    TeacherBelgium Active Member

    I know that violence is never an option but why should such an awful person get the chance to live till 80 with the bill being footed by the contributions in taxes ordinary people who work hard make?
    What about the poor parents who have to live with the fear that the monster who killed their child will ever be released again?
    Some people never deserve a second chance. They should live hell on earth every day again for what they did to another poor, innocent human being.

    I remember 14 years ago when a young police officer was killed here. 23 years old at the time. She started her job a year before. She was very liked by her entire team.
    She got called on duty and her police car was targeted with 10s of bullets coming from a Kalasjnikov. She didn't make it. Her colleague who was with her spent years rehabilitating.
    The gangsters who did that are free men again. They were released two years ago and went back to Romania.
    The poor girl her parents still live with the pain from having lost their only child.
    The young woman would be 37 now.
    But she stayed forever 23.

    Believing in second chances for everyone doesn't work.

    That's why I'm terrified of voting for left-wing parties.
    Left-wing parties are always in favor for mild punishment.

    We have a very famous serial killer here in Belgium called '' Marc Dutroux ''.
    To make a long story short : Dutroux kidnapped, raped and killed 6 young girls between the ages of 12 and 18 years old over the course of 1995 and 1996.
    His wife was compliant.
    When Dutroux was arrested two girls were still in the basement he kept the children at.
    The wife left the kids starving from hunger and thirst in the basement.
    Dutroux got released and he buried the bodies in his garden.
    The last two victims he made were found severely underfed and had spent 3 months in his basement. They made it out alive.

    The wife was released in 2012 after a prison sentence of 30 years was bestowed upon her in 2004.
    She spent 16 years from the 30 years that were bestowed upon her, in prison. She was released under conditions.

    Both Dutroux and his wife were arrested in the summer of 1996.
    Their trial began in 2004, 8 years later.

    They murdered 6 young women from which 4 were minors.

    Dutroux is still in prison. He was convicted to a sentence of 110 years but in Belgium after 15 years someone can ask to be considered for parole.
    Dutroux hasn't received it for now but his new lawyer recently said that he thinks Dutroux should be released after he spent 25 years in prison because everyone deserves forgiveness and yada yada.

    The parents said in a television interview that every year they are deeply afraid the court will honor his request for early release from prison.

    Both were also sentenced to paying the families a moral compensation.
    The families never received a dime.

    Dutroux' wife Michèle Martin who now also goes by Thérèse Martin,
    sneaked away her own inheritance so that she didn't have to pay the victims from the money she inherited from her mother.

    Michèle Martin was welcomed in a cloister when they liberated her in 2012. She spent a year living with nuns.
    Now she has a relationship with a retired judge.
    They recently married.

    Michèle Martin is now a paralegal.
    She studied law for 3 years.

    The victims are under the ground, 6 feet under, with families that are left destroyed.
    But Michèle Martin got a second chance and Dutroux, her ex-husband (they divorced in prison) is also awaiting his second chance.

    How is that considered fair?
    How should people like that not be put down?
     
  8. TeacherBelgium

    TeacherBelgium Active Member

    And to add to that:
    That's why I will always be terrified of left-wing parties.
    Left-wing parties here in Belgium are so in favor of second chances that they let the biggest trash in and that everything is made out to be an unrealistic '' love party '' .
    If it was for the left, life-sentences would no longer exist.
    I'm so glad that they face strong opposition from right-wing parties here in Belgium.
    I'm terrified what a mess they would make from the legal system if that opposition fell away.
    Left wing parties here in Belgium are obsessed with climate warming and apologizing for what happened 100s of years ago when we were not even born yet.
    They are not busy with the problems we face today, here and now.
    That's why they make such a soup from Belgium.
    They are not capable to guide a country through such a mass crisis.

    Our prime minister was not able to prevent thousand young people gathering together in a well known park "Ter Kamerenbos".
    They organized a party there while the rules clearly stated 1,5 meters of distance and mouth caps obligatory. They left their mouth caps off and came really close one to another.
    Gathering together was forbidden at that time, yet they met up with at least 1000 people.
    Our prime minister is too weak to send out strong messages.
    He told them : '' I know it's tough for you guys but we need to hang in there for a little bit longer ''.

    Is that how a leader should react?
    No. A leader should make sure they leave the park at all cost. Even manu militari if necessary.

    This country is a mess.

    We pay 21% VAT. More than most countries in the world.

    On a salary of 3000€ at the end of the month, when taxes are kept off it, you get to keep 2000€.
    1/3th of my salary goes to taxes.

    Europe doesn't work.
    Never did.
    Never will.

    At least America sends out a strong message to people who want to settle there : '' Abide by our laws or get the hell out ''.
    America's heavy prison sentences work.

    Here we can't get people to abide by our laws.
    Crime is something that is taken for granted here.

    I will never stand behind the path the administration in this country takes.
    They are so weak, lack leadership and get into the government because their father or mother was a prime minister at one point.

    Our prime minister we have now is a daddy's '' boy ''.
    He comes from a rich family, daddy was a prime minister in the 90s and now he took over.

    The guy went to Kellogg but doesn't have an inkling of knowledge of what leadership means.

    At least over there you are led by real men. Who put the deed to the word.
    Here it stays with words. Empty and vain words.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2021
  9. TeacherBelgium

    TeacherBelgium Active Member

    People should contribute actively to a society.
    Those who per se want to deviate from values and norms and who actively harm their fellow human beings shouldn't be given a chance.
    Put it in a dark hole and throw the key away.

    Problem solved.
     
  10. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Anyone can come up with anecdotes about violent criminals. But to support executing people, by definition one must either believe (1) that in this one area government doesn't make mistakes, or (2) that it is acceptable to execute innocent people. The first is hopelessly naïve. The second is barbaric.
     
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  11. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    I'm fundamentally opposed to the death penalty for this reason. We've gotten it wrong hundreds if not thousands of times, and many times figured it out posthumously.
     
  12. TeacherBelgium

    TeacherBelgium Active Member

    In cases where doubt may exist, I fully agree not to carry it out.
    But in cases where you have a monster that raped and killed innocent young children and buried them in his garden, I see no reason to have tax payers keep that person alive.
    But I see what you mean.
    America has the problem that people of color are disadvantaged by the system and often innocently convicted.
    That should absolutely be called out.
    But in cases like with serial killers where you know 100% that that person did it, why keep that person alive?
    We have a serial killer here in Belgium that raped prostitutes, bit them in the breasts and genitalia and killed them by disfigurement.
    That person is in prison since 1974 and is our longest serving criminal.
    Tax payers are keeping that person alive.

    On one hand I see what you mean because who are we to judge about life or death as fellow mortal human beings.
    On the other hand that person who carried out monstrosities will always have the chance to escape or ask parole and in that way instill people with fear till the last day of his life.
     
  13. Mac Juli

    Mac Juli Well-Known Member

    I thought about this. I think it is frightening that the answer is likely "yes". All that it needs for this is the firm belief that YOU are on the right side and your victims are less-than-human beings who fully deserve what is done to them.

    "The road to hell is paved with good intentions.", as Bernard of Clairvaux said.
     
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  14. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    It actually costs more to the taxpayers to have someone on death row since their appeals involve expensive courtroom resources and other things like that. Life in prison is cheaper.

    Plus, if you want to reduce killing, you've done that by putting them in jail. Killing the serial killer just adds to the deaths.
     
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  15. MiracleWhipz

    MiracleWhipz New Member

    I can tell you from my experience working around both death row and inmates with life without, none of these people are going to be rehabilitated at some point they are just bleeding the states resources, personally Edmund Kemper should have been dead a long time ago. He even told the state if he was released he would kill again. What he did to his mother is pretty disgusting...I'd google him if you're interested. What's the point of housing someone like that until he dies from old age? for funsies?
     
  16. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    #1. With a death penalty, we run the risk of accidentally executing someone who was innocent, as we've done numerous times in the US's history. (https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/innocence/innocence-by-the-numbers)

    #2. With a death penalty, we have death penalty appeals which make death row cost far more than life imprisonment. If you eliminate those appeals to kill more quickly, you run back into #1. (https://www.leg.state.nv.us/App/NELIS/REL/76th2011/ExhibitDocument/OpenExhibitDocument?exhibitId=17686&fileDownloadName=h041211ab501_pescetta.pdf)

    #3. The death penalty is not a crime deterrent. (https://www.aclu.org/other/death-penalty-questions-and-answers#:~:text=Q%3A%20Doesn't%20the%20Death,than%20states%20without%20such%20laws.)

    #4. A society that wants to less killing is not setting a good example by killing more people. Revenge is not a virtue.
     
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  17. MiracleWhipz

    MiracleWhipz New Member

    I dont think you addressed my comment, seems you are regurgitating death penalty statistics. What is the reason to keep someone alive like Edmund Kemper when he said if he's released he will kill again and he admitted to everything he did.
     
  18. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    I understood your comment. You're making a false dichotomy. Nobody ever suggested that the choice is between killing someone and setting them free.

    The choice is between killing them or imprisoning them for life. What do we gain by killing someone who is no longer a threat because they are imprisoned?
     
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  19. MiracleWhipz

    MiracleWhipz New Member

    About 81k a year..Edmund Kemper has been in prison since the 70s, you do the math on that. What is he going to contribute to society? Nothing.

    https://lao.ca.gov/policyareas/cj/6_cj_inmatecost#:~:text=It%20costs%20an%20average%20of,%2432%2C000%20or%20about%2058%20percent.
     
  20. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    Except keeping the death penalty has cost California $4 billion more than it would have without. (https://files.deathpenaltyinfo.org/legacy/documents/LoyolaCalifCosts.pdf)

    48 years @ $81,000 a year is only $3.9 million, and that's not discounting for the fact that it wasn't $81,000 a year 4 decades ago. We could have imprisoned more than a thousand Edmund Kemper's without the death penalty for 48 years and still have $100 million to spend at the candy shop.
     
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