Why did you choose your college or university?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by sanantone, Sep 2, 2024.

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  1. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    That's not how Woolf works. When your institution signs up with them, it becomes a college under the umbrella of their university. This means there are a variety of institutions that are not in Malta, yet whose accreditation, through Woolf, is Maltese: https://landing.woolf.university/academics/colleges

    It's a little more integrated than the validation relationships we sometimes talk about around here, but that's the general idea.
     
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  2. tadj

    tadj Well-Known Member

    "Woolf is composed of member colleges. The collegiate system has developed over a period of one thousand years, but collegiate universities all have in common a system in which the degree-granting educational institution is divided into smaller, semi-autonomous colleges. Each college operates under the umbrella of the institution, and is subject to the same quality standards, but maintains its own staff, culture, and areas of academic focus. Each student receives a Woolf degree which names both Woolf and the college."

    My understanding is that the QAHE-Kyrgyz "online accredited colleges" are not under the umbrella of any larger Kyrgyz institution of higher education. The Woolf colleges are autonomous, but still fall under the umbrella institution. I would not compare Woolf to this distinct QAHE legitimization operation. The QAHE institutions do not constitute a foreign study center of any actual Kyrgyz university either.
     
  3. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I see, it is very similar to the Azteca deal but the difference is that the Malta education systems does not need to accredit particular degrees so everything that Wolf accredits becomes accredited. For example, Azteca has a deal with Open International University so the issued degrees become Azteca degrees but the problem is that these degrees are propio degrees as they are not accredited by the minister of the Education of Mexico. Costa Rican Universities have similar deals with African schools so the degrees become Costa Rican degrees legally issued under the Costa Rican law. British and Australian universities have similar deals with asian private colleges.

    I guess in this globalized world things become a bit complex. The Malta university just becomes the umbrella with the degree granting rights but the providers are private online colleges. This would be fine provided that the Maltan University provides quality assurance of these degrees but with so many colleges under their belt, it is hard to believe they actually do.

    The propio degrees from MAsterscursos and other similar online spanish schools have similar deals, they offer online education but the degree comes from a Mexican or Spanish school but these are propio degrees with no official recognition while the Malta deal provides official qualifications.

    Woolf claims that their qualifications are accepted by WES and other recognized credential evaluators. They probably do but it is a bit like stretching the legal system. The non accredited college just pays a fee to Woolf so their qualification becomes accredited but there is no guarantee that actually Wolf is involved at all in the delivery or quality assurance of the qualification.

    And now other schools that before were unaccredited in the US are now accredited because the use a similar scheme but under an European country that is little known as Kyrgyz but technically are European qualifications.

    I guess it is going to be very difficult to establish now what is credible now and what it is not. Azteca is not the only doing it but there are now hundreds doing a similar deal so it is going to be very difficult to know if the education is actually worth something.
     
  4. tadj

    tadj Well-Known Member

    That's an overly pessimistic judgment. There is a lot that you can establish by paying attention to authentic sources showcasing accredited institutions in a given country. The QAHE-Kyrgyz "accredited online" schools do not show up on any of these lists for either the U.S. or the Kyrgyz Republic. That's easy to establish.
     
  5. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    This reminds me when the unaccredited european schools were issuing degrees with University of Liverpool stickers (or another British school, I cannot remember). The school was not accredited but the degree would come with a sticker of an accredited school to deceive the potential employer.

    It would be confusing for an employer. The person puts in his CV "MBA from Pebble Hills, Delaware (RA equivalent degree)". The person sends a copy with the degree with a bunch of of stamps, europeans logos, apostille, etc. The prospect employer would just think it is a legit degree. Who is going to bother to trace all the links of this degree issued by a chain of accreditors that at the end provides an RA equivalent.
     
  6. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Like a previous post mentioned, this would be for the degree nerds like us that follow all the schemes but the average person would just get a CV with a degree from a school that nobody heard like Pebble Hills and with bunch of stamps that at the end say Regionally accredited equivalent. The HR person would just assume that the degree is from a low profile RA school and move on.
     
  7. tadj

    tadj Well-Known Member

    Let me rephrase that. It's easy to establish, provided that you care enough to check.
     
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  8. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    The weak link here is the foreign evaluation credential service. As long as a NACES or AICE service is willing to provide an RA equivalent certificate, the credential would pass most of the HR departments. There are hundreds of CVs that need to be reviewed by HR people, for foreign qualifications they just check for NACES or AICE and move on. If the unaccredited schools finds a loophole to get the certificate, they have good business for a while until the foreign credential evaluators find out and black list them but by then few million dollars are already in their pockets.
     
  9. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Well-Known Member

    I recently got promoted to a full time job at the community college I had been working at part time for two years. I worked there several years ago and returned while working in Health Informatics which I hated. I've been a math tutor and then a math teacher part time in TRIO progrgrams for the last two years and just became a full-time adult education instructor last month. My PhD from Azteca/UCN was accepted and I do get called Dr. Still, one should be careful in earning and using these on-the-fringe degrees if you don't already have solid professional experience or are entering a brand new field that requires that particular degree. For life-long learning purposes, propio and other low cost foreign degrees are still a good option.
     

  10. COST
     
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  11. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Congratulations!. I think you were able to get a NACES evaluation for your degree and this is really what makes the difference. I agree that if you need your degree just to advance in your present career and not interested in a tenure track at research institution, the low cost PhD with a NACES positive evaluation might work. I think there is a difference when you explain to your prospect employer that you took an international program from a legit Mexican University with an agreement with a central american university than if you try to explain that you took it from an online non accredited American Institution with an accreditation from Kyrgyz. I perceive Azteca as a legit Mexican school with on campus operations that offers an international program with a legit central American university, this not so different from Northcentral University when it used to run degrees in Vietnam.
    The cost if the main issue. As family man with many financial obligations, it is hard to justify 80K for a PhD that is going to report a small pay increase.
     
  12. Michael Burgos

    Michael Burgos Well-Known Member

    As interesting as this discussion is, I'll try to return it to the OP:

    AS, Northwestern Connecticut Community College: They had a general studies program that gave me a fair opportunity to take what I wanted.

    BS, Lee University: I wanted to study both Wesleyanism and Barth (weird combo, I know), and I received a scholarship that reduced the cost to about a quarter of what it would have normally cost. I didn't have much expendable cash at the time, and my top choice at the time was considerably more expensive.

    MBS, Andersonville Theological Seminary: Poor judgment. You can find my cautionary tale here.

    Non-degree coursework: To supplement, I've completed twenty-four graduate credits at various institutions local to me as a non-degree student, including UConn, YDS, and Hartford Seminary (now Hartford International something or other). Sometimes, the school I was at didn't have what I wanted. At other times, I had a nagging interest in something unattainable on the internet. This is a great route since it's a la carte, and you can take advantage of the libraries and such. A few schools even give prerequisite leeway for non-degree students presently enrolled at another institution.

    Certificate, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary: I had an increasing interest in counseling, and I didn't want to commit to a graduate program. It was fairly affordable, and I ended up feeling thankful that I didn't commit to a longer program since SEBTS' counseling dept. wasn't and isn't great.

    MA, University of Chester: I was interested in studying theology with a UK institution and wanted to write a thesis under a particular scholar.

    MA, Belhaven University: It was a well-rounded program from an evangelical and Reformed institution with a great faculty. Cheap too.

    ThM, Southern Baptist Theological Seminary: I really enjoy SBTS. I love the faculty (maybe none better on earth), the campus is heavenly, their bookstore is second to none, I could talk for years about the library, and their programs are truly world-class. It began as a DMin. In fact, I completed 90% of the DMin program a year early after a bunch of trips to the campus. The program was doable online, but on-campus study was more rewarding. Seminars were worth their weight in gold. However, I became disillusioned with the project's utility, so I tapped out. The ThM was a consolation prize, but I value it more anyway.

    PhD, Forge Theological Seminary:* FTS was a new institution at the time (only a few years old), and I was their first doctoral student. They accepted my proposal with enthusiasm. Mistakes were made, but the supervisor took as much time with me as I needed. I loved the European-style research-only model, although I had to take a year of Latin en route. The program was tuition-free (similar to TNARS), and I was able to work with an excellent supervisor. (*I work for FTS now)
     
  13. Michael Burgos

    Michael Burgos Well-Known Member

    Who issues the degree?
     
  14. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Woolf University
     
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  15. TEKMAN

    TEKMAN Semper Fi!

    I believe both the college and Woolf University. Here is somebody who earned a Master of Science in Computer Science - Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning through Scaler Neovarsity.

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. laferney

    laferney Active Member

    Sometimes we choose a degree based on our situation and location. I was on a USAF base in Spain during the late 1970s The had 3 master degrees on the base for airmen and dependents -a Master's degree in Management from Troy State University, a M.P.A from the University of Oklahoma and a Masters in Counseling (Psychology) from Ball State University. I didn't really know much about any of the schools at that time. I chose the Ball State degree/ Had we not been assigned there I probably would have never went for a degree in Counseling. Maybe the other degrees would have served me well. I don't know, but the Counseling degree worked out for me.
     
  17. Messdiener

    Messdiener Active Member

    I took a look through a dozen or so of Woolf's current offerings and noticed that their 'certificates' (not 'diplomas', as other institutions called them) mention the following clause:

    "The Malta Further and Higher Education Authority (MFHEA) deems this degree to be at the [...] of the Malta Qualifications Framework and the European Qualifications Framework for Lifelong Learning." (Emphasis Mine)

    I know folks here may tire of us applying the Spanish 'propio' vs 'oficial' paradigm on every other nation's educational systems, but does this text above hint that Woolf degrees are something akin to Spanish propios?
     
  18. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    Seems like the part snipped out would be important. The level is EQF7 which corresponds to master's level qualifications, which include degrees but also postgraduate certificates. The inclusion of Lifelong Learning in the framework title doesn't imply anything specific about the qualification as far as I can tell, it's just part of the longer name for the framework. The Malta Qualifications Framework (PDF) also notes Level 7 as being a Master’s Degree, Post-graduate Diploma or Post-graduate Certificate.
     
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