Which is true: Creation or Evolution?

As an academic theologian...

I'm ceratinly not one of the world's leading Christain scholars but I have spent my life trying to read as much as possible about the 'academic' study of religion and Christianity as much as possibel. The problem is, because modern civilization and society is totally out of tune with how the ancient people thought we impose out modern notions on the thinking of the writers of the ancient world. Thus, when I tell people that the cruxifiction story is written based identically on a Greek tradgedy play they haven't a clue what I'm talking about because they've never studied Greek tradgedy literature let alone the thought and writing pattermns of writers int he ancient world going as far back as the writers of such books as Exoduc or Genesis in the Old Testaement. For me, the Christian concept of God is summed up in an Old Testament Jewsih writing (Exodus). When Moses, depicted in the religious mythology of the Irsaelites, tells God during his discussions with Him during the story of the burning bush, what His (God/Yahweh) name is, in the story God answers, "I am that I am." Now what is anyone to make of that response! Knowing a name int he ancient world was important and that is why the writer moves on this issue! The writer is getting to a fundamental point and question: Who or what is God?

In the Hebrew language in which the OT is written the Hewbrew words mean far more than thewy do in English translation and express a form of thinking we've lost in aour modern, soc-called western civilization. Literally translated the " Iam who (or that) I am," means I am that which is knowable and I am all that is not knowable and I am that that is to be found and experiences. That is what the Hebrew text means! Just reading these ancient books blindly in English (including the New Testament) without explanation gets us to where we are today!

PS: I'm glad the US judge ruled that the words 'Under God' not be used! The phrase was only introduced in 1954 (reaction after the second world war I think) and I donlt think taking them out reduces the US oath of allegiance in any way. Who and what is God? And if you don't believe in God but are a true US citizen why should these words be required.

'telfax'

 

can't have it both ways on the pledge

I believe the pledge originated in boys life magazine.
the country is very close to adopting a national religion. The people are saying that stating "...under god..." is good because everyone believes in "god" is just so misguided.
The same for the vouchers. The Christrian right is happy with "their god" and vouchers for their schools. But will they want all the other religions to equally benefit. The vouchers will have to be available to all religions. Scientology, Wiccan etc.
I agree, fighting communism by adding under god to the oath did clearly tries to establish a national religion.
All the best!

 

As the pollster I have a statement to make.

Both of the following statements are true:

Creation is true and scientific
and
Evolution is religion only

these two statements are facts.

Dave

KC7WGB

 

This issue of "under God" being unconstitutional is ridiculous. Based on this logic the constitution is unconstitutional. It says endowed by their creator......etc. So we will have to expunge the reference from the constitution (ala george Orwell 1984).

Where in the constitution does it say separation of Church and state (speaking as an ingnorant Canuck)?

This country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles period. There is quote after quote after quote establishing the founders of this countries belief in God (Christian version) and how that impacted and governed the ideals and framework they established. These ideals have made the Western World as great as they are and the US a beacon in that world. That does not mean that the founders were infallible or that our country is without fault.

It is amusing that in the name of tolerance people are so intolerant of anything Christian to the point that the founders religious beliefs are expunged or sanitized from history books and you can't mention God in school and Christians are simply not extended the same rights to free speech and assembly in some cases (refer to the American Center for Law and Justice who has litigated many of these cases).

Just venting

North

 

authority sanctioned religion vs personal

I guess if there is a North I must be the South? That sounds sort of like masons? LoL
I think the separation of church and state was one of the hallmarks of those old white men from the 1770's and 1780's. Certainly most of them believed in God, Heck, most of them were Masons. I don't see any problem with those historical facts, and teaching those historical facts in school.
The place where things get complicated are whether adding words which mean there is a "judeo-christian" god to poems, songs, required school hymns that all youth are required to swear an oath too?
Usually the answer is students who don't believe in the "judeo-christian" god can swear to something else. I think that argument alone confirms that the issue clearly is around establishing a national religon.
I think any individual can prary at almost anytime. It may be rude to pray while others are talking. But that would be a social custom or norm.
But for a government to sanction a particular religious view is the issue.
In little Burlington VT there was a history of having an xmas tree on public property. The competition led to a jewish symbol as well on public property near the xmas holiday. The court ruling was allow all, or none. Now the policy is that there are 10 spaces available. Religious groups who want one, add their name to the hat and up to 10 can get drawn. So far the max has been 3. However, some religions complain that their main holiday is not in the winter. One claims the Summer solstice. They want equal use of the space in June. The selectboard has said the park is really heavily used in the Summer whereas it is fairly vacant in the Winter. What to do? Should the state only support religions which have a Xmas timed holiday?
Maybe with the swearing an oath to the "judeo-christian" god can alternate in public schools. Monday its the "judeo-christan" god, Tuesday its the "Greek/Roman Gods", Wednesday its Allah, Thursday its Budda, etc. etc.
I think there is a big difference between having a godless nation, and having a nation in which belief in god is a personal choice, not a state mandate.
All the best!

 

It does not have to be.

This part of the forum is clearly titled as Off-Topic and described as containing *Jokes, banter, comments, etc. that are either not related or very peripherally related to the general discussions of DL*

Opherus