What's better: PhD from a .com school or a DBA from a B&M?

...the main reason why online PhDs (that only require paying of high tuition) will never be ranked alongside traditional PhD programs at B & M Schools. To compete, online PhDs must require publications, conference presentations (as is the the case with majority of UNISA's PhDs, for example); but we know doing this will be antithetical to the very existence of "for-profits" (enrollment will reduce, so would the money).

So who is short-changed in this whole "online PhD" equation? Ofcourse, the students (PhDs that are 100% online are even worse). The schools get their money (which is their original objectives, anyway), the adjuncts get a small chunk of the student's monies, and the students get an expensive online degree that can really only land them teaching gigs at other online schools, if they are lucky.

Why luck? Well, online schools now require teaching experience, but where would that experience come from if those very schools did not require activities that give their doctoral students teaching experience? I think online schools should incorporate online teaching opportunities (2 -3 classes would be fine) for their PhD students, so that they atleast have online teaching experience upon graduation. Otherwise, except grads of online PhDs engage in publishing, and in presenting at conferences, on their own after earning the degree (stuff that should be part of their doctoral training), then they are being sold a bad product (worse for those who are just now getting those online PhDs - earlier online PhD earners that now teach at 7-8 schools don't face this problem).

 

This is the bottom line of the problem. Traditional PhDs are really demanding so you see only few people taking such programs and not many working full time do them. I have seen academics doing distance PhDs but they have the summer offs, conference money, etc that make them good students for this type of programs.

If for profit schools start asking demanding requirements, they will have no students so they keep the minimum requirements to remain accredited but not enough to make their graduates competitive enough. There are few that graduate and make it because they already have the teaching, research experience, etc so the PhD diploma is all they need to move on in their careers but this is not the case for the vast majority of people.

In few words, PhD programs cannot be really money makers if run properly with full time PhD faculty taking few students, doing research, presenting at conferences, etc.

Now, it doesn't mean that online PhD at for profits are bad either but they do not provide the same experience as traditional schools. The problem is that this experience is required for people to break into academia.

 

Actually, If you are willing to consider non American programs then the options are plenty. The few that come to my mind are Grenoble, Queensland University of Technology and University of Manchester.

If you compare tuition fees, Capella and QUT are not so different but the second one is AACAB accredited. However, Capella programs are a lot more flexible in terms of courses, requirements, etc and designed to satisfy working professionals while programs at QUT are really meant to train academics already working in the University environment so you might be expected to present at conferences, publish, etc.

You cannot have it all, if you want flexibility go with Capella, if you want something that will be less flexible but will provide you with recognition go with University of Manchester or QUT.

 

Link?

Do you have a link for the QUT online program? I looked around but all I found were in-person programs or those available only to AUS/NZ residents.

 

Life is about trade-off's, isn't it... My military education benefits needed to stay in the states.

I believe I posted this earlier, but isn't there an AACSB accredited b-school dean that has taken a look at the sheer numbers of people enrolling in online doctoral programs and at least explored the possibility of a limited residency doctorate?

BTW - I'm in agreement that there should be some type of requirement to present, publish, teach, etc. to earn a Ph.D. Another thing I have seen in hiring committees is that so many people who want to start in teaching, esp. at the full-time level, have no clue pertaining to major issues in higher ed. One of my favorite interview questions pertains to what are current issues in academia - things that can be picked up with a quick read of the Chronicle or Inside Higher Ed.

I believe that we would both agree that if you are going to teach with a for-profit PhD, that you better learn that academia has rules, and to land a tenure track position, you need teaching experience, presentations, etc. Looking back at my dissertation, the best thing I did was to have a non-Capella faculty member on my committee. How did that happen...attending and presenting at a conference.

 

There are some...

Kennesaw, Case Western both have some variation of a limited-residency program and UFlorida was considering one (there must be others in the US besides but I'm drawing a blank) but they are astronomically priced so that only very wealthy people or their corporations would be interested in them. UFlorida I believe characterized theirs as a "cash-cow" similar to some MBA programs.

What I think would be good would be a relatively inexpensive DBA like Valdosta's DPA with limited residencies. Even Valdosta's is getting expensive though.

My feeling is that if I'm personally going to pay big bucks, it had better be AACSB. If I could find a company to pay for it, that would be a different matter. I don't think the ROI is there for for-profit doctorates, not at my age and with my goals.

 

I do understand the fact about accreditation of the degree but as StefanM said is what I meant:

 

Now when you say "we" are you speaking French? I am not sure why it is a given that anyone getting a PhD has their sights set on an academic career. Maybe they are doing it for other reasons.


By the way, I agree. If the sole purpose it is get into academia, an online only / for-profits would not/should not be the first choice.

 

Thinking out loud...a logical candidate for a limited residency doctorate is the University of North Dakota. Why?

AACSB Online MBA

North Dakota is in excellent financial shape due to the oil boom - the state is not hurting for money.

Thoughts?

Shawn

 

I posted this thread a while ago about this:

http://www.degreeinfo.com/general-distance-learning-discussions/31044-external-aacsb-accredited-phd-australia.html

The links are not working but you can use the link below:

QUT - Doctor of Philosophy (Business)


The mode of delivery is blank now but I know they take external students. Bear in mind that in Australia and the UK the key word is not distance but "external". External students are students that are not on campus, most research degrees that can be done part time can also be taken as external students.

You might be expected to go few times on campus at some dissertation phases but I know that most Australian schools do not require a Viva dissertation presentation.

 

Yes, all the AACSB accredited programs are expensive. Bear in mind that starting salaries for professors working at AACSB institutions are 100K plus and someone has to pay for this.

If you want cheap and accredited, the best would be to look at potential candidates for accreditation (e.g. Nova). Most of these programs would double the tuition fees once accredited so if you can get in before accreditation and graduate at the same time accreditation is achieved then you would be able to save a lot of money.

 

And if you can work the timing out on that, you are amazing. :smile:

 

Is there a list of candidate schools on AACSB's website? I could not find one.

 

You can see the members but not the schools that have applied for AACSB accreditation. Most schools won't commit to anything in their websites as for AACSB accreditation is concern as they don't want to be sued by students.

I know USQ in Australia is serious about this, they have hired an AACSB accreditation officer that is in charge of achieving accreditation. However, I know that they cannot meet the number of full time faculty holding PhDs yet but they are pushing for it. I'm sure they will get it eventually but it might take 5, 10 or more years.

Andy Bouchers has mentioned that Nova is also after this accreditation. The University of Liverpool is also looking into this also according to a friend that works there as a director of academic studies.


Many schools are serious about this but it is impossible to predict the future. However, one thing is for sure, once schools achieve accreditation they tend to double their tuition fees.

A PhD from an AACSB accredited school might cost close to 100K so it doesn't seem to be an option for most of us.

A PhD from a school like NCU coupled with a AACSB Post Doc bridge might be cheaper but you mentioned that this is not an option as schools won't allow a NCU PhD to do this bridge. I'm sure that this has more of a business reason than academic, if they allow it then most people would go this way and ruin many AACSB accredited programs offering DL options.

I think that if one cannot afford an AACSB accredited doctorate, one should at least try with a school that is a AACSB member and actively pursuing this accreditation.

 

The requriements for the program state that you need to have a non-business doctoral degree from a school with with an AACSB business program yet I did find one person with a DM from CTU and they completed the program at Tulane. I do not think it is a good investment (even I I could get in) since (1) I do not want to teach at a B&M school, (2) it is not a "proven ticket", and (3) it is still a $25K gamble to compete against people with an AACSB PhD.

To enhance a resume I would rather add the The AACSB Bridge Program at only $5K and makes you PQ although I an not sure if that is worth it since you can be PQ without it.

 

The Post doc is not a degree but a certificate so it is always possible that schools do not recognize it as the equivalent to a PhD in business.

Also, there is no need to pay for a Post Doc certificate. All you need is to work as a post doc at a AACSB accredited school and most schools will grant you a certificate for this.

The 25K for few summer seminars seem like a rip off when most schools pay you some money to be a Post Doc and not charge you.

That reminds me at a Professor that took a sabatical at our school in order to work in Oxford in England. We were really impress about this till someone found out that anyone can work at Oxford if they are willing to pay for an office there, basically you can work as a research professor for no salary and just pay for the space you use. This just gives you the right to put in your resume that you worked at Oxford as a research professor but the reality is that you were not paid for this but instead you paid for this right.

So here you are paying 25K just for the right to say that you were a post doc student when most Post Docs get paid for this.

 

What a scam...sign me up!

 

There are also few stories of people with bogus doctorates that were able to land tenure tracks because they completed post docs at prestigious places.

Many times, it is hard to find post doc students as it pays very low and the work is demanding. Not many profs check the credentials of the post doc students and many times they are given menial tasks that do not require a doctorate such as programming spreadhsheets or conducting surveys.

So it is quite possible that someone could get a post doc position at a prestigious place and then land a professor position based on this post doc even if the PhD is coming from a non prestigious place or even unnacredited.

 

You can probably contact a professor and try to publish a paper just to justify your stay there.

There are few people that accept post doc positions with no pay just for the right to have this in their resume.

The Post Doc AACSB accreditation bridge is just an example on how people are willing to pay money just to have a name University in their resume.