What's better: PhD from a .com school or a DBA from a B&M?

Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by SurfDoctor, Aug 14, 2010.

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  1. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator Staff Member

    Sorry - just could not let it pass :eek: I am not sure how long it will take...hopefully about two or three more weeks...;)
     
  2. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator Staff Member

    That's OK, I figured that either you or MC would nail me! :)
     
  3. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator Staff Member

    AND, contrary to the opinion of the narrow minded, NCU is one of those great schools!
     
  4. Cyber

    Cyber New Member

    I don't think that perception will change anytime soon. They are many who feel that the only way of maintain superiority over those with degrees from online-only schools is to continuously pursue their "doctoral degrees from internet-only schools are inferior" Jihad. Also, if you notice, individuals who currently attend, or graduated from internet-only schools feel the need to defend their education/investment hence, are constantly justifying the worth or value of their ".com" degrees. In other words, those from B & M schools feel a need to constantly attack the credibility of DL degrees from ".com schools." So Michael, if you continue to post variations of this question (which you have done alot recently), the response will always exceed those 4/5 pages as pointed out by Maniac Craniac above. Further, no matter how you want DL degrees (especially doctorates) from internet-only schools to enjoy improved prestige, it will not happen, unless folks from B & M schools, especially, those from prestigious schools don't read or care to comment on it.

    All that said, folks will continue to pursue doctorates from schools that "work for them based on their specific circumstances," not based on perceptions from irrelevant others. Is it surprising that enrollment at ".com" doctoral programs continue to sky-rocket (as espoused by Dr. Pina on many occasions on this forum) if there is lack of demand for it?
     
  5. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Amen to that. You should do what it works for you regardless of comments from others.
     
  6. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator Staff Member

    Could not agree more - take a look at the quote in my sig line- "You're neither right nor wrong because other people agree with you. You're right because your facts are right and your reasoning is right-and that's the only thing that makes you right. And if your facts and reasoning are right, you don't have to worry about anybody else." - Benjamin Graham
     
  7. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator Staff Member


    You seem to imply by your didactic tone that I'm seeking advice or have some sort of agenda. Possibly, I'm trying to convince myself or others that a DL degree is OK. However, I need no advice and have no agenda other than the fact that I enjoy the discourse on this sort of subject. Judging by how many people read and post to those kinds of threads, it seems that I'm not alone and very few individuals, as you implied, appeared to have an axe to grind. So I will most likely continue to post variations of that topic as I find those that interest me.

    (By the way, love the "Jihad" term)
     
  8. Cyber

    Cyber New Member

    Actually, I'm siding with you on this issue. As a proponent of DL, I don't think you have an agenda or that you need advice. I was implying that the questions are interesting, and that as long as you continue to ask questions regarding online-only and B & M doctoral programs utility/value/ROI/acceptance etc, we will continue to find the same set of responses from the "usual suspects" on both side. So no, I don't think you are seeking advice or after any other agenda (besides that DL is fine based on each individual's circumstance). I love the opportunity that DL has provided to folks who use it to earn their doctorates regardless of the perception of the utility of those degrees in the U.S.
     
  9. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator Staff Member

    Ah, very good, thank you. It's nice to have a thread subject other than one such as "which school is better" Etc., to talk about.
     
  10. Homeland_Security

    Homeland_Security New Member

  11. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator Staff Member

  12. Homeland_Security

    Homeland_Security New Member

    The links did not display as I intended. All of the universities have .edu internet addresses, not .com.
     
  13. Cyber

    Cyber New Member

    Do you really want to know what folks in academia think about internet doctorates?

    Online doctorate is “a doctoral program design based around online learning and independent activity on the part of the student, with little or no residency requirement. While providers of these doctorates—e.g., University of Phoenix, Cappella University, Argosy University—are generally accredited as distance learning providers, they frequently lack disciplinary accreditation, making these programs unsuitable for most faculty positions at research universities” (Huisman & Naido, 2006, as cited in Gill & Hoppe (20090, p. 29). Read the reaserch article here: http://ijds.org/Volume4/IJDSv4p027-057Gill267.pdf
     
  14. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    We have discussed this issue to death. The reality is that PhDs in business have mainly use in academia. It looks like the trend is to hire people from AACSB accredited schools, the issue will not be if the degree was earned by using internet technologies or not but the accreditation issue.

    The Capellas, Argosy, Walden, etc are milking the cow just before the limited market for non AACSB accredited doctorate saturates. As it is, there are some people willing to invest the small fortunes just to get the chance to become full time faculty or at very least adjuncts. Once the market for adjuncts becomes saturated with the dot com doctorates, the very same schools that graduated them will start asking for AACSB accredited doctorates too. I have seen few ads from dot com schools calling for AACSB accredited doctorates.

    Professional accreditation will become the real differentiator, the form of delivery will become irrelevant.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2011
  15. Shawn Ambrose

    Shawn Ambrose New Member

    While I agree with the online doctorate is probably not the best route to teach at a research university, not all universities are research universities. A candidate with a strong business background and/or teaching experience can obtain a position at a teaching university.

    Also, to make the claim that academia in general holds the online doctorate in disregard, based on two journal articles, is reaching quite a bit. Next weekend, I will be involved with the Biennial Conference on Armed Forces and Society, and my credentials have never been an issue:

    http://2011.iusafs.net/pdf/2011Program.pdf

    Now after defending the online doctorate; if an AACSB online option had been available for me, I would have pursued it for obvious reasons. But it wasn't. I completed my doctorate with Capella, and to date, the degree has served me well.
     
  16. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    For those who do, I am one, and as someone who's a gatekeeper for hiring faculty at my institution, I'll happily consider applicants with doctoral degrees earned online if it looks like they know what they're talking about and they can teach.

    -=Steve=-
     
  17. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    The question is if you hire tenure track professors with salaries that start at least at 120K with benefits or just hire adjunct faculty that makes 2K a course?

    Adjunct and tenure track hiring is completely different. Adjunct hiring normally requires the approval of one person (e.g. chair) so it is likely that an accredited PhD from any school would work as long as you can show that you can do the job.

    However, tenure track hiring is a completely different game. Most Universities require candidates to pass different levels of approvals before you are given an offer.

    A chair might like you and try to get you in but if your degree is from a dotcom, I would think that someone in the process would object to the hiring unless the school has almost no candidates. This might happen in a small city but certainly not the case for large metropolitan areas.

    I think that the online doctorate has positioned itself as good enough to land the adjunct position at an online school that offers 2K a course. If someone is serious about an academic career and is aiming for a job that pays 100K plus, there is no shortcut but an AACSB accredited doctorate.

    The lack of credibility of the online school has nothing to do with the delivery technology. I believe most academics are skeptical about these schools mainly because they offer programs that are fast paced, have little publication requirements, taught mainly by adjuncts graduated from the same type of schools, etc. There is nothing that prevents an online school from building a credible program that uses full time faculty with degrees from better schools, impose publication requirements, etc but it seems that the ROI would not be as attractive. If an online program from a non AACSB accredited schools costs close to 60K, the online program with AACSB accreditation would need to cost more than 100K to make it profitable and I believe most would rather go to study full time than paying the 100 to 200K in tuition fees.
     
  18. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator Staff Member

    While your point is well taken, I live in the Tampa area and there is a liberal arts college that has/had a few tenure track PhDs with degrees from Capella and Walden. Are you referring to research or AACSB schools hiring practices or all colleges in a major metro area? I realize one example does not "make a rule" but I feel your statement is true for AACSB schools but not all schools. I think you got your degree from a non-US school (correct me if I am wrong), does it have AACSB or ACBSP accredition or other program accreditation? I am just curious, no attack planned :wave:
     
  19. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Yes, and for this reason i recommend an AACSB accredited school. I have found limitations without this accreditation.

    I teach decision sciences, I'm lucky that for this field many schools do not care about AACSB accreditation as many are hired from Math, Engineering and Computer Science departments. However, the lack of AACSB accreditation is an issue as this limits employment possibilities.

    I'm established now and happy but I struggled for a while because many rejections, many because the AACSB requirement.

    Things are getting more difficult so I don't see much future for non AACSB accredited doctorates. You and I might not like it, but this is a fact and there is no point to argue about this.
     
  20. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator Staff Member

    Well, I have seen a position (don't remember where) but it called for AACSB or ACBPS. Luckily, NCU is ACBSP so that is better then no accreditation. You know, with only 600 or so AACSB accredtied schools, I am certain this will not happen over night and, I would assume, most AACSB doctoral degree holders work as full time instructors and are not after the adjunct work. There are just not enough graduates to meet all the demands of all schools. I am sure there will plenty of crumbs for me to pick up :mischievous:
     
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