What is "VAE"?

ok, back from scratch.

http://www.education.gouv.fr/vae/default.htm

That's the ministry website.
It says VAE is for everybody no matter what & in order to access the procedure you must get in touch with a prior learning assessing instance
*******
La validation des acquis de l'expérience pour l'accès aux diplômes et titres de l'enseignement supérieur

*******
then you get here:

http://www.dep.u-picardie.fr/confdir/vae/visit-annu/visit-affich-toutes-univ.asp

this is THE list of universities etc authorized by the french ministry to deal with the VAE/PLAR procedure. They're ALL LISTED.NO MENTION OF RDS. NONE


The RDS shill, however, told us earlier they give diddly squat about Paris & its ministries.
These days they're recognized by
http://www.sorbonedu.com/poitiers.jpg

Nevermind.
http://www.dep.u-picardie.fr/confdir/vae/visit-annu/visit-form-select-univ-aff-acad.asp

Here you can see where you shall apply for your VAE/PLAR according to your "académie" ( like scolar district but on a bigger territory )

Select "poitiers" because our female doctorate told us so.

You get
Universite de Poitiers
Universite la Rochelle

No ENAC, No HEC, No Comoros Islands, nothing.
Once again you're spotted big time, my dear female.

Only fench public universities are recognized source of VAE/PLAR validation.
Nowhere
http://www.dep.u-picardie.fr/confdir/vae/visit-annu/visit-affich-toutes-univ.asp
is RDS to find &

you notice they all are UNIVERSITIES; not HEC, ENAC or Ecole des Mines

Do you want an odd example:

Polynésie : Université de la Polynésie française Service de la formation continue FAAA - Tahiti (Polynésie Française) Outre-Mer

now my lying Gmail, go back running in circles & playing boo-boo the nazi with whom likes that game: i don't care.

I expect -however- some new trick to be pulled, like the VAE procedure not being anymore the core of RDS activities (perhaps karate or pedicure... ).

I post this second message because i know you hoped i would do in the mud slinging session you (& your newfound allies) started earlier, wishing the unsuspecting american ( your target to raise bucks for your campbell soup..oops Ph.D ) would ignore it bothered by all those moochy & pathetic attempts to diversion.

 

What is this French "VAE" process?

How is it performed?

What kind of institutions are authorized to perform it?

How does "VAE" differ, if it does, from long established prior-learning assessments in the United States, such as the exams and portfolios used by Thomas Edison State?

Why is there so much talk about "VAE" being an innovation that the US should accept? What's innovative about it?

Finally, how can all of this stuff be independently verified by an English speaker who doesn't understand French?

 

What is this French "VAE" process?

Excuse me, but i think i gave an answer already.
Same as the french ministry site confirms, VAE is PLAR no holds barred.
They say there it's for about anybody who may have at one point or another extensively dealt with a job, even if unpaid, of charitable or nonprofit nature.

La loi de modernisation sociale ( Journal Officiel du 18 janvier 2002) élargit les possibilités de validation diplômante des acquis de l'expérience dans l'enseignement supérieur. L'université peut reconnaître et valider les compétences acquises dans la vie professionnelle pour faciliter l'accès aux diplômes et titres de l'enseignement supérieur.

" the law medernisation sociale gives you more chances to get credit for your prior learning experience when seeking university diplomas. Universities [the public state one authorized to do so] may recognize & accredit your past acquired competences in order to ease the transition to university diplomas. "


How does "VAE" differ, if it does, from long established prior-learning assessments in the United States, such as the exams and portfolios used by Thomas Edison State?

i have no precise idea.
However
They explicitly mention public state universities will take care of the VAE procedure.
Hence it look more like a credit transfer or equipollence procedure than else, anyways here's the french ministry of labour:
http://www.travail.gouv.fr/dossiers/vae/1.html

here an extensive list of questions&answers
http://www.travail.gouv.fr/dossiers/vae/questions.html

Basically, VAE is just PLAR with many disclaimers as for what kind of degree you may get; anyways a committee shall deal with it, whose decision is final.

Care to know who may tell you how to get started & whether or not the degree you seek is open to VAE ( not all are ):

OU S'ADRESSER POUR CONNAITRE L'EXISTENCE ET LES MODALITES DE VAE POUR UN DIPLOME PRECIS ?
# S'il s'agit d'un diplôme de l'Education Nationale : Pour le cas du CAP, BEP, Bac Pro, BTS, il faut s'adresser au Rectorat qui dispose d'un service appelé " DAVA " (Direction Académique pour la Validation des Acquis)

# S'il s'agit d'un diplôme de l'enseignement supérieur, il faut s'adresser à l'Université qui le délivre (Service Formation Continue de l'Université) ou à l'établissement d'enseignement supérieur en cause (ex : service d'orientation du CNAM (Conservatoire National des Arts et Métiers, s'il s'agit d'un diplôme du CNAM).

# S'il s'agit d'un diplôme de professions sociales ou paramédicales, s'adresser à la DRASS (Direction Régionale des Affaires Sanitaires et Sociales).

# S'il s'agit d'un diplôme délivré par les Ministères chargés de la Jeunesse et des Sports, s'adresser à la DRJS (Direction Régionale de la Jeunesse et des Sports)

# S'il s'agit d'un diplôme délivré par le Ministère de l'Agriculture, s'adresser à la DRAF(Direction Régionale de l'Agriculture et de la Forêt) ou dans les établissements de l'enseignement supérieur agricole.

# S'il s'agit d'un titre du Ministère chargé de l'Emploi préparé dans les centres de l'AFPA et les centres agréés correspondants, il faut s'adresser à la DRTEFP, à la DDTEFP ou à la DR AFPA.

# S'il s'agit d'un CQP de Branche porté par une Commission paritaire nationale de l'emploi, il faut s'adresser au Secrétariat national de la CPNE qui représente les partenaires sociaux (employeurs et salariés) ou à l'OPCA de Branche (Organisme paritaire collecteur agréé)

# S'il s'agit de titres ou d'autres types de certifications portés par des organismes privés ou publics (chambres consulaires), il faut s'adresser à l'organisme de formation qui délivre le titre ou la certification


what VAE is NOT...

L'équivalence de titres ou de diplômes.
Chaque autorité délivrant des titres ou diplômes décide des équivalences entre tel ou tel de ses propres diplômes et ceux d'autres autorités. Il convient de s'adresser dans ce cas au Service des Equivalences de l'autorité certificatrice.
Par ex : Rectorat pour les diplômes du Ministère de l'Education Nationale ou pour l'enseignement supérieur, Service des Equivalences de l'Université qui délivre le diplôme.


Une conversion " automatique " de l'expérience en diplôme.
La VAE suppose de suivre une procédure pour faire évaluer et reconnaître l'expérience acquise.
L'évaluation de l'expérience consiste à rassembler différents modes de preuves destinées à démontrer l'expérience acquise et son lien direct avec le contenu du titre ou diplôme visé.
Chaque autorité délivrant des titres ou diplômes définit les conditions de recevabilité de la demande de validation et la procédure à suivre pour accéder à ses certifications.


1 not a degree equipollence/credit transfer option between degrees issued from different sources.
2 not granted & automatic degree on the ground of your past experience. There are many steps to follow to prove you're a suitable candidate and first you have to be accepted into the procedure.

Why is there so much talk about "VAE" being an innovation that the US should accept? What's innovative about it?

It is just PLAR according to the french authorities.
And it is a bait for a few conmen to try some degree mill hunting season like they did with the "UK education act" earlier, then with Liberia, Pakistan, Malaysia ( Marlborough was playing this card ages ago, however ).
In the USA, Canada, etc there are PLAR provisions as well.


Finally, how can all of this stuff be independently verified by an English speaker who doesn't understand French?

I have no idea.
French ministries only answer general points like whether VAE exists and/or whether outfit X is ok.
The implementation is left to french state universities.
Hence you should contact them.


these are the universties authorized to implement VAE procedures:
http://www.dep.u-picardie.fr/confdir/vae/visit-annu/visit-affich-toutes-univ.asp

There is no other outfit authorized to do so ( because as they say, VAE is not just a credit transfer or equipollence procedure ).

 

Ugh. Now the sawed-off little psychopath is cross-posting... for something like that fourth time around here... at least that I've noticed. Alas, will there be no respite?

 

la traduction

Here's how I would translate some of that document.

==============
Subject: Opening of a private higher education entity

In reference to the sending of the regulations of the Robert Sorbon School, please send me the following additional information:

(bulleted list follows)

I would appreciate your sending the documents as quickly as possible.
==============

That's not government recognition.

G

 

Indeed. But it's all moot now. The clearly-mentally-disturbed Ham, I have it on good authority, is, gratefully, is no longer among the living...

...at least not in these fora.

Maybe now we can all have some peace.

Praise be.

 

The VAE is not the same type of PLA used in the US as far as I can see. The US approach is based on individual subjects within a degree while the VAE is looking at the whole degree or diploma in one context..

Many schools in the US offer PLA but most times limit to 25% of the degree, while the VAE allows 100% if verifiable..

There is a big difference there.. Secondly the PLA here, requires more work from the student while that PLA is just reviewing documentation then an interview..

 

I originally wrote: What is this French "VAE" process?

Unfortunately, exchanging one acronym for another doesn't help me very much.

I want to know whether 'VAE' gives credit and/or degrees simply for years worked, for resumes submitted, for passing general exams, for passing exams in specific subjects, for portfolios, or what.

'PLAR' can mean anything, ranging from American-style challenge exams, where a student takes the normal midterm and final exams for a university subject without attending classes (by that definition the Heriot Watt MBA would be PLAR), all the way to the "life experience degrees" awarded by degree mills.

So are the degree mills. What I'm curious about is how 'VAE' assesses and rewards that experience.

I wrote: How does "VAE" differ, if it does, from long established prior-learning assessments in the United States, such as the exams and portfolios used by Thomas Edison State?

Can French ecoles perform 'VAE' as well as universities? The ecoles are certainly higher education institutions and my understanding is that some of them are more prestigious than the universities.

If French ecoles can perform 'VAE", is that right restricted only to public ecoles and perhaps to those private ecoles whose degrees are recognized by the government, through the 'visa du diplome' process or something?

Or is 'VAE' something that even unrecognized private ecoles, if such things are even legal in France (I suspect they are and Sorbon seems to be one) can perform, though that free-lance 'VAE' would still result in unrecognized degrees?

A committee of whom, doing what?

I asked: Why is there so much talk about "VAE" being an innovation that the US should accept? What's innovative about it?

I agree that's precisely what seems to be happening here on Degreeinfo with 'Robert de Sorbon'.

People seem to be taking something that in French might be entirely reasonable, then waving it around in front of Anglophones who can't understand French and who don't understand the French higher education system, implying that it somehow provides justification for a very questionable school.

But I still don't have any clear idea what that presumably reasonable French procedure is, how it functions, who may perform it or who oversees it. I just vaguely know that it's some kind of prior learning assessment or something.

Unfortunately, if I have to make judgements about the credibility of institutions at the low end of VAE, I have to have some idea about how VAE is defined and circumscribed.

I asked: Finally, how can all of this stuff be independently verified by an English speaker who doesn't understand French?

Frankly, that's an excellent reason why non-French-speaking individuals should probably be skeptical of this VAE thing, no matter where it originates.

Authoritative clarification is badly needed.