Western State University and the ABA

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by nosborne48, Feb 23, 2005.

  1. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Effective February 14, 2005, Western State received provisional ABA accreditation.

    Soooo...they're back in the ABA ballgame.

    This is weird; I wonder of politics was involved? They LOST their ABA accreditation, what, last year? Can they really have improved that much, or, should they never have lost accreditation in the first place?
  2. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    I have no way of knowing.

    But I'd speculate that WSU was in serious non-compliance with something that the ABA considered important. Perhaps warnings weren't enough, and it took the actual termination of the school's accreditation to motivate it to address the problems.

    Probably the 'provisional' in the reaccreditation refers to the the necessity that the school continue to comply now that it's gotten what it wants.
  3. Lajazz947

    Lajazz947 New Member

    Western State and ABA

    As you can see by my signature I went to WSU. My experience there was excellent and I know many outstanding attorneys in LA and Orange county as well as a few sitting judges that went there.

    The moot court team is no slouch and they do a great deal of pro bono work for the poor. I personally think that they do a great service to the public in that regard.

    It is a good regional school that attracts allot of part timers and was and is a " safety net " school for most aspiring law school students.

    I know that the ABA argues that the loss of ABA accreditation was due to high dropout rates and low bar passage rates.

    The school would argue that it is the ABA's bias against proprietary schools but while I don't completely agree I do see that as at least a minor catalyst for closer ABA examination.

    I have not seen the latest or recent bar passage rates but I do know that there were years when the rates of other non profit ABA schools had lower passage rates and they had no problem keeping ABA accreditation.

    Who knows, there may some truth to WSU's alegation. All you can deduct from the ABA's recent decision is that there must be SOME truth to it because they backed down.

    I think it was to avoid a court date where they have much more to lose than they do by extending WSU an olive branch. Now it is up to WSU to do thier part. We will see.
  4. Ray Lund

    Ray Lund New Member

    ABA & Politics

    Yep! this case had all the weird twists and turns of a sci-fi thriller! You just never knew what would come out next for a media release, and if you guessed, you were probably wrong most of the time!!

    I'm sure low Bar passage rates were a front liner in the propaganda war, but really, just what was the problem?

    Any time I see an instant U-Turn on a major issue like accreditation of a full blown law school, I have to think somebody got their coat ruffled (Mr. Hatfield) and that Mrs. McCoy had to steam it out to spec to avoid a shootout. (Mr. Hatfield from the ABA having the bigger gun of course)

    Now it appears, All's Quiet On the Western Front. What an interesting chapter in Now You See It, Now You Don't.

    Ray Lund
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 24, 2005
  5. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Well, it IS a mystery. WSU used to charge about $33,000 per year in tuition which is up there with Harvard, Columbia, Stanford, and U.S.C. Given the relative prestige and therefore earning power of the degrees, that struck me as excessive. Once the ABA took away their accreditation, WSU dropped its tuition to around $27,000, still steeper than I would consider justifiable for a CalBar school.

    WSU trained many prominant lawyers and Judges but much of that happened before it was a profit making entity, as I understand it.

    I wouldn't pay these rates myself, but there seems to be no shortage of applicants.
  6. Ray Lund

    Ray Lund New Member

    Numbers of Applicants

    I think Western is something like Real Estate - Location, Location, Location......
  7. Lajazz947

    Lajazz947 New Member


    I know. Tuition is extremely expensive but they serve a special niche.

    I went to WSU approximately 100 years ago when tuition was about $10,000 a year so it was a different ballgame.

    I agree that it is expensive and I would not pay the going rate today but the reason why there are no shortage of applicants is because the school is as I wrote before a "safety net " school for many students that can't get into other schools.

    That was me. I did not take my studies seriously until much later in my life. Now I am a great student. Had I studied this hard in my 20's I WOULD have gone to Harvard.

    I wish my 18 year son would get that through his head. I am better student than he is. If he plays his cards right at UC Riverside he will go wherever he want to for grad school.

    As they say............" Youth is wasted on the young ".
  8. jugador

    jugador New Member

    Re: WSU

    I'm with you completely and I can REALLY relate. I'm 55 and while the body is nowhere close to where it was in my 20's, I'm at the top of my game intellectually. Maybe it has to do with hormones (or the lack thereof).
  9. Lajazz947

    Lajazz947 New Member


    I'm 48, and I am with you as far as intellectuality goes and how it relates to the rest of my body.

    My wife who is 13 years my junior does however, find my intellectual capacity and accomplishments quite sexy.

    Thank God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I will therefore continue to study just to keep the spark going.

    Who knew college could be an Aphrodisiac. We now have a 1 year old baby to go along with the 18 year old baby.
  10. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Alas for the young! Their bodies won't submit to sufficient discipline to allow them to engage in the single minded pursuit of learning.

    Neither would OURS when we were that age! :D

    My wife, also a lawyer and younger than I am, is very supportive of the London business, but I don't think it's sex appeal. She wants to go to the graduation ceremonies!
  11. kfinks

    kfinks New Member

    Sounds familiar. My wife was adamant about me pursuing my MBA from the EBS at Heriot-Watt for the same reason. She was not happy about my opting for University of North Alabama (only an hour away).



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