University Response to Profs with Bogus Degrees

Attributed to Wayne J. del Corral, who teaches finance part time at Tulane University:

Hilarious!

 

Let me be clear, I am not promoting or encouraging someone to present a PhD in anyway that it does not represent. I support you 100% if its presented as a major scholar when the person is not.

It all comes down to ego. I am sure person do a real PhD to get the title as well but at least they earned it by standard requirements.

Society does demand people to have fraudulent inclinations. Its probably does not look acceptable to teach in a college and not have a PhD. Therefore, just like water you can take the path of least resistance to get one.

 

I have never denied that ABET accreditation is the "Gold Standard" for US engineering programs. It is. My point is that there are, nonetheless, legitimate -- and even prestigious -- engineering programs that don't have it. I would therefore take issue with someone that automatically dismissed, say, the MIT BME program or the Stanford materials engineering program, simply because they lacked ABET accreditation.

Similarly, I have never denied that RA is the "Gold Standard" for US universities in general. It is. But there are, nonetheless, legitimate -- and even prestigious schools -- that don't have it. I would therefore take issue with someone that automatically dismissed, say, Rockefeller University, Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory, or the University of California Hastings School of Law, simply because they were not regionally accredited.

You keep attacking the "weakness" of my examples, yet you've never directly addressed their validity. So tell us:

Are the non-ABET engineering programs at schools like MIT and Stanford legitimate, or not ?
Are non-RA schools like Rockefeller or UC Hastings legitimate, or not ?
If they are legitimate, then what exactly are your criteria for legitimacy ?

I am, in fact, interested in advancing the debate on what constitutes legitimacy. But I question whether legitimacy can be defined solely on the basis of accreditation. Accreditation is probably the single most important variable, but it cannot be relied upon exclusively.

 

Accreditation is probably one of the most misunderstood subjects.

RA = You have the basic requirements to offer degree programmes. No actual course quality.

NA= Same as RA but actually more requirements.

ABET = These courses will have the following contents.

While RA is most respected its probably does less in respect to actual program content requirements.

 

Golly, then how do you explain the success of the regional accreditors? Do you really think that NA degrees are more rigorous accademically than RA ones?

 

I think its mostly branding and reputation that gives RA precedence over the NA ones.

My main point was that it comes down to each school to build their own quality or get course accreditation such as ABET.

 

NA (eg DETC) Accreditation Impressive ?

NA "Same as RA but actually more requirements" ??

According to Bruce, the three prominent National Accreditors in the USA are:
Distance Education and Training Council (DETC)
Accrediting Council for Independent Colleges and Schools (ACICS)
Accrediting Commission of Career Schools and Colleges of Technology (ACCSCT)

None of these has anywhere near the credibility of Regional Accreditors. Regional Accreditation includes factors such as library size and faculty qualifications. What are some of the further requirements for DETC or ACICS accreditation ? My normal impulse when seeing a resume with a DETC-accredited degree - with a few technical exceptions - is to toss it into the trash unless I'm looking to fill a very low-level dead-end position.

 

Why didn't you ask about their credentials before accepting them as mentors? I just hope that your claim is not another shameless fabrication like the one about an African-American student getting into a top psychology doctoral program with a GPA of "1".

 

Re: NA (eg DETC) Accreditation Impressive ?

Why would you act so defiant of a potential applicant with a nationally accredited degree? Your assertions of graduates from nationally accredited degrees only being qualified to fill a "very low-level dead-end position" is bias, ridiculous and pathetic.

As for the library size, this is a antiquated regional policy for a traditional university and is not adherent for online education, whereas you can access an online library open 24hrs, 7 days a well, 365 days a year. Plus, you can have access to a librarian anytime of the day or night and access to more books and articles than any tradtional library could ever offer.

As for faculty, DETC accreditation requires qualified administrators and professors, just like the regionals.

Some of the further requirements for national accreditation include student outcomes, satisfaction and career placement.

 

Re: Re: NA (eg DETC) Accreditation Impressive ?

Yes - it certainly is a bias - but it is a reality-based rational bias. I will change my bias when I see a sequence of degrees similar to the following:
BA Aspen University
MS MIT
PhD Cal Tech

I realize there are DETC enthusiasts who claim DETC accreditation is just as good as RA and Professional Accreditation, but it seems to me they ought to stop smoking those funny cigarettes. It's partly a self-selection issue - quite apart from the quality of the program. In the real world, DETC-accredited school attract an entirely different - such-we-say "non-competitive" - kind of student. Go to any ACICS school and you will see many students whose eyes don't quite line up (though with many exceptions).

This may not be what we all wish for NA-accredited schools, but that's the ugly reality... and employers see it exactly that way. Reasonable and well-justified bias...

 

You are not hurting me by your unrelenting attempts to create a flame war. However, what you are doing is engaging in projection. In fact YOU are the one who is SHAMELESS by having the gall to disrupt this thread, as you have done so in the past, with total disregard for other posters who do not wish to be distracted by your acting-out grossly inapropriate behavior.

So take your anger and need for revenge and deal with it BUT NOT HERE. The only one who is being disparaged by your negativity and antics is yourself.

 

Re: Re: Re: NA (eg DETC) Accreditation Impressive ?

I give up on you man. never seen so much unobjectivity in a long time.

are you serious?

 

Re: Re: Re: NA (eg DETC) Accreditation Impressive ?

Generally DETC degrees are not perceived on par with those from RA schools. RA is the gold standard and DETC accredited degrees are a distant second. For many years DETC schools were perceived as offering lower strata correspondence degree programs. However, this perception MAY change with DETC now offering doctoral degrees in business and another in education as part of a study project. It will be interesting to observe how this may impact on the perception of DETC degree when (if?) the US Department of Education gives its final stamp of approval in fall 06.

 

Re: Re: Re: NA (eg DETC) Accreditation Impressive ?

Wow, your quite the scholar with a little too much imagination. Your asumptions are ridiculous and unvalidated.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: NA (eg DETC) Accreditation Impressive ?

How would the simple fact of the DETC now offering a pilot DBA (professional doctorate) launch it as more reputable accreditor than right now? What this actually shows is a history of proven success with the DETC and the expansion of their programs.

After the DBA approval, I've heard the DETC will expand into Ph.D programs.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NA (eg DETC) Accreditation Impressive ?

Primarily it is not a "simple fact of the DETC now offering a pilot DBA" (also an Ed.D at another DETC school) but a major augmentation of their scope of accreditation IF the US Department of Ed approves this expansion. Offering doctoral degree programs may result in DETC schools being perceived with more credibility and that is why the schools involved in the project study are managing this undertaking very seriously. For instance, the DBA will not be a "quickie" ticket to a doctorate but will require a scholarly dissertation contributing original research, not a project oriented final paper.

Yes, within the scope of what it does DETC programs "shows a history of success" BUT not on par with RA degree programs. This does not imply that DETC degree are inferior but that they are in another category that were never conceived with the notion of competing with RA degrees. Let us watch how the DETC doctoral project unfolds and whether this transmogrifies the perceived status of DETC degrees in the future.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NA (eg DETC) Accreditation Impressive ?

 

Not so much branding as a high quality product with a proven track record of success. That, and a much, much larger market.

I have nothing but respect for NA degrees, but I do feel that they serve a small, niche market of students.

 

There are questions/issues that need to be addressed regarding the future utilization of DETC doctorates for licensure purposes as well as for the right to use the title "doctor" in a number of states that currently have stringent statute limitations on non-RA doctorates. For instance will a graduate from a future DETC doctoral program in Psychology be eligible for licensure to practice in states that now require an RA doctorate? Will states such as Florida and New Jersey that currently specify that one needs to have a RA doctorate (or a foreign equivalent, a religious oriented or state approved doctorate) to refer to themselves as "Doctor" recognize DETC doctorates as meeting this requirement?

 

I am not saying that many of these schools are not high quality. My main point whether the accreditation by itself garantees any quality of education.

We are argue Harvard has been around for years and therefore has respect, the point is that the schools themselves developed the quality. I think the NAs such DETC has more requirements in respect education contents. For example DETC restrict PLA to 25%, RA has no restriction on this.