University of the Cumberlands EdD: Yeah, I enrolled

Discussion in 'Education, Teaching and related degrees' started by SteveFoerster, Jan 29, 2014.

  1. mattbrent

    mattbrent Well-Known Member

    I've been taking history courses through APU so I can get promoted. The EdD program helps, too. In the VCCS, faculty need a doctorate to get promoted to full professor, and luckily, as long as you have enough credits in your respective field, it doesn't matter what the doctorate is in.

    Another pro to this program - While they required a test like the GRE, they allow you to submit old scores. I took that sucker 10 years ago and rocked it. My scores expired, but luckily I'm a digital hoarder and scanned all of my documents. I printed it out, mailed it in, and they accepted it.

  2. mattbrent

    mattbrent Well-Known Member

    I should also add that I'm in my first course, Higher Education in America. Our professor is Dr. Gary Goff, who is a former college president. In this week's session, we were talking about tuition, and while I have not verified this, apparently the University of the Cumberlands is one of the least expensive schools, if not the cheapest, in Kentucky. That's not too shabby for a private school!

  3. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    I can't imagine it's not true. Their tuition rates are cheaper than Virginia schools' in-state tuition rates.
  4. Tom729

    Tom729 New Member

    Good luck with everything!!!
  5. Shawn Ambrose

    Shawn Ambrose New Member

  6. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    First, many thanks, Shawn, for your help with my application!

    As for the other, well, if it makes you feel better, UC lost the subsequent championship game....
  7. Tom729

    Tom729 New Member

    Would greatly appreciate anyone's opinion. Note: I wanted this question to be started as a new thread but I seem to be having a problem where its stating that it has to ungdergo review. By one of the moderators I'm assuming


    I recently got accepted into the ACE Ed.D program for leadership and I did want to ask others who might be more informed what they would most likely do if they were in my position. I also just want to mention that I know it seems strange to be asking questions about transferring to different schools only after just having gotten accepted, but I would really like feedback from other people on this. I don't plan on transferring (assuming that I even go that route) for some time.

    I got into the Ed D program like I mentioned and I am in my third week of their one credit orientation program. As proud as I am on my accomplishment there are several factors about the school that have me a little concerned. First the program was just launched not even a year ago so it hasn't gotten any recognition whether positive or negative. Secondly, it is purely online (no physical campus.) I am not saying anything negative about online universities so please no one get offended. It's just that depending on one's goals, a online doctorate with a physical campus may look more attractive to potential employers. Thirdly, the Ed.D program is in "leadership" not "educational leadership." There are many teachers in the program and having a degree in "leadership" would benefit me as a teacher tremendously, however there are also business owners, and other people in non-educational professions going for this degree. I would rather the program be designated specifically in “educational leadership.”

    On the plus side to ACE, it is very cheap for an RA school. I pay 303 per doctoral credit since I received a 10,000 dollar grant. The faculty seems very well distinguished. And the online courses seem to be very state of the art in terms of software. ( I know that some people have complained about this very issue when attending online programs. NCU being a primary example.)

    I have been very interested in the University of the Cumberlands. I didn't know about the school until very recently. It has a campus. It is RA. It will end up costing me about the same since it's four credits less than ACE in the Ed.D.
    Most important things about the program is that the doctorate is in “educational leadership.” This is what I would like my area of concentration to be in. My goal is to go into higher administration in the secondary education setting. All things being said, is there anyone who thinks that making the transition from one program to the other in my position would be worth it?

    Thanks. Any input would be appreciated.
  8. rmm0484

    rmm0484 Member


    From what you are saying,

    1. You would not lose money if you transferred now.
    2. You would only lose one credit at most if you transferred now.
    3. The program at University of the Cumberlands is very flexible - both on-ground and online formats are available.
    4. You feel that the U of C is a better fit, both academically and for career progression.
    5. The ACE doctoral program is new, so they do not have a track record yet...

    If you live near U of C, certainly the regional name recognition will help with career aspirations. Some school systems may look down on an EdD from an all-online school, some may not. U of C appears to be more established than ACE...

    Since you have listed valid reasons for transferring, and have little to lose, why not enroll at U of C?
  9. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    There's a lot of discussion on this board about the mechanics of doctoral study. Admissions, credits, getting advisors, and the like. I just want to put in a word for another aspect: the developmental experience.

    Pursuing a doctorate is like no other tertiary educational experience. Getting a bachelor's degree is about introducing yourself to a field of study, learning about it, and preparing to enter the practice of it. (Or, for some, graduate-level study of it.) You're on the bus. You know where the bus is going.

    Getting a master's is a very technical process. No longer do you have the liberal education of undergraduate study. Now it's about learning your field in its complexity, to "master" it. You know what it knows. You've got a front seat on the bus. You want to be where the bus is going.

    But getting a doctorate is about exploring new and unknown territory. You're going to change from the experience, but you don't know how. You're going to learn (and create) things that you didn't anticipate, things that didn't exist previously. You're driving the bus. You don't know where it's headed, where it will end up, nor what you'll be like once you get there. But when you do, it will be you and yours. Oh, and then you keep driving to new locations.

    Take it from someone who's done it twice.
  10. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    :iagree: What Rich said. One of the things that attracted me to UC was its faculty, which includes a retired president of a different college. That's the sort of insight of which I want to be able to take advantage when I get to the research phase.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 5, 2014
  11. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    I was seriously considering applying to University of the Cumberlands, but now I don't think I can due to my own conscience. I have nothing against anyone who could attend this school; it's just that I can't because my Christian beliefs do not align with theirs when it comes to how we should treat other human beings. According to Wikipedia, University of the Cumberlands expelled a student who was on the dean's list and changed all of his grades to "Fs" because he revealed on MySpace that he had a boyfriend. I understand they are Southern Baptist, but I think this kind of reaction is very unchristian. The link to the source would not work for me, but I found plenty of other articles on the event.

    Gay Student Expelled from U. the Cumberlands; School May Lose Funding - New York Times

    That's a very strange thing to say. Another concern of mine is that they would find something old I have said on the internet that might hint at my "premarital activities", and I don't want to risk being expelled. :tongue:
  12. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    Cumberland apparently has a policy barring students from promoting homosexuality. However, the student in question reportedly enrolled before this policy was published in the student handbook.

    The student then made plans to transfer out. But while he was still enrolled, Cumberland officials became aware of his sexual orientation by viewing his Myspace page. The student was then expelled immediately, and he was given "F"s in all of his uncompleted courses. This was obviously a problem for the student, since he was trying to file a transfer application.

    The student filed a lawsuit, and Cumberland agreed to settle: they let him finish his courses and keep his grades (he was an honors student), and the student transferred to a state school.

    It may have been an expensive decision for Cumberland, because soon after that, they lost $11 million in state funding for their pharmacy program. The Kentucky Supreme Court ruled that state funding cannot be used to support schools that discriminate on religious grounds.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 10, 2014
  13. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    That's a fair objection. I considered that when making my decision, but was surprised to see at least in the school of education that there was no mention of them as a religious institution in general nor one of their position on this issue in particular. In the course I'm taking now, for example, the influence of sociocultural factors on adult development was covered, and sexual orientation was included without comment on a list that also included age, ethnicity, gender, and class. I can't speak to programs on campus, but at least in this program, it's definitely not like Liberty University.

    That said, while it's not part of the curriculum, I've noticed that many of my classmates refer to being Christian in their introductions. And a few people on staff have quotes from the Bible in their email signatures. I realize some people have a visceral negative reaction to public expressions of Christian faith, and those people probably aren't a good fit, even for this program. I don't, so it's a non-issue.
  14. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    Cumberlands basically gave up on the pharmacy program (they do offer pre-pharmacy to undergraduates). If they had continued with it, some interesting issues might have arisen regarding their accreditation. Professional pharmacy programs are accredited by the Accreditation Council for Pharmacy Education (ACPE). The ACPE standards include the following under "Ethical, Professional, and Legal Behavior":

    In the past, there was some discussion about whether or not Cumberlands could meet this standard (or if they would even want to). Obviously it's a moot point now.
  15. mattbrent

    mattbrent Well-Known Member

    I was concerned about the religious nature of the school initially at first, too, but so far, I haven't encountered any of it. When I looked into Liberty, it appeared that EdD students had to write some sort of Biblical paper in every class. Cumberlands doesn't seem to require that. Like Steve said about his class, the class I'm in hasn't shown any sort of religious bias at all. The program doesn't seem to emphasize religion, so I'm thinking perhaps that may be solely a focus at the undergraduate level.

  16. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Being a Christian, I don't have a problem with attending a Christian school as long as it doesn't let the creationism theology distort life science courses. I have a problem with how University of the Cumberlands treated this student. There is a Catholic university where I live that runs a pharmacy school. Apparently, they don't have this issue with discrimination, so they remain accredited.
  17. sambainsac

    sambainsac member

    I've been enrolled in the EdD program at University of the Cumberlands for my second term now and can tell you that last year a statement of faith letter was a required piece of the application. Make no bones about it UC is a Baptist Christian school. I knew this going into the program and keep my west coast thoughts to myself. I am good with much of the Christian dialogue because honestly do have enough time to think about it and the program outweighs many questions I may have had about not being Baptist.

  18. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    In that case it may interest you that they no longer have such a thing -- in fact, this is the first I've heard of it. I'm aware that the school is Baptist, but there was no mention of it during the application process, and even in class I've found the mentions of it to be pretty infrequent, mostly just fellow students talking about their faith in passing as it relates to their own experiences. I think one would have to be actively anti-Christian to find what I've experienced there objectionable.
  19. GeneralSnus

    GeneralSnus Member

    If you applied online, it looks like you did agree to uphold Christian values when you applied (even if that pledge was rather concealed). A nebulous, meaningless pledge, but a pledge to adhere to a doctrine nonetheless.
  20. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Huh, you're right! That took real searching, when I go back through it again I see now that there's a link (that doesn't need to be clicked to proceed) leading to a short paragraph that includes:

    "If accepted as a student, I pledge to uphold the Christian values which are the foundation of University of the Cumberlands. I will conduct myself in a manner which will positively reflect upon me, my peers, and the University."

    I agree with you that this is written so nebulously, and self-interpretation could be so varied, that if one interprets the overarching Christian value as Matthew 7:12, "So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets," it would include essentially everyone who is well meaning.

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