tuition free religious on-line-education: Concordia Theologica Institute For Biblit

My post was in reference to this statement, Bill. I know this isn't your intention, however, the statement seems to suggest that "ire and rancor" are acceptable forms of interpersonal communication.

Brash, hostile, overtly offensive and in-your-face communication does nothing to foster effective dialogue. Thus, this mild mannered Wesleyan must retreat to the inner room of tranquility.

BTW, I learned my hermeneutical method from reading Institutes.

 

Unk, you are the first person I have ever met who considered the LCMS liberal. Are you Wisc. Synod?? Some of the things you mentioned, I have never heard of such as women in theological & administrative positions of leadership. In the churches I have known in the LCMS, they do not sit on Elder Boards, do not lead Bible Studies unless they are for women, there are no female clergy, some even object to them reading scripture in the altar area. As for the President, he was almost successsfully brought up on charges for particpating in an interfaith prayer after 9-11. A pastor I know allowed a deceased members family to have a Baptist pastor and an Episcopalian pastor say a few words at the service and was in fear that he would be reported to St. Louis for having some kind of inter faith service. LCMS are so concerned about Lutheran doctrine that they seriously proposed having folks who would pop in unannounced to services to ensure Lutheran doctrinal purity (kind of Lutheran Theological police). People used to call the Concordia Study Bible the 'company bible'. They pulled out a joint Lutheran service book with the ELCA a few years ago over the issue of doctinre (ELCA too liberal). I have never met a LCMS charismatic (may well exist). So concerned are they about Lutheran doctrine that they disallow interfaith stuff and many practice closed communion.


Unk, If they are liberal then I would hate to see what you consider conservative.


North

 

................................


Russell

I guess I am not communicating well.

I don't yet see how aggressively challenging those verbally who misrepresent (that is, lie) about their qualifications or denigrating schools which grant degrees for insignificant amounts of work (ie, cheat) equals in any way killing people for their beliefs. Please explain why you would equate these two acts?

In my World Encyclopedia Dictionary "ire" means "anger" and "rancor" means "extreme resentment." Neither word denotes killing but only having strong feelings against something. I believe I could cite Biblical occasions when such feelings were with propriety expressed with "in your face" language! (eg "Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons..rebuke them sharply" , Titus 1:13). Are you saying that there are no things we should be angry about or resent or speak confrontively against?

If you will check the verb's tense and meaning in such as Titus 1:9 you will see that Paul expected an all out effort on the part of the teacher of the Tradition. Such effort is not exemplified in Dr Trudy's four degrees in Theology nor Dr Withey's (assuming he stopped buying them) one. I will speak out on such fraud forcefully but without foul language as I see fit on this practice which disrespects Christ, which cheapens Christian higher education , and which ignores Paul's requisite.

While I am sorry if this makes me less Christian in your eyes, I suppose one needs to be guided by his own convictions.

 

Silly me. I forgot.

Please add:
many practice "open" communion

Multumesc,
Janko

 

By the way, my sincere apologies to normal people for posting this theological stuff outside of the "off-topic" section. This was where the thread was, and I followed it, looking for the borrowed axe-head, and fell in.

P.S.:
Liberal: "Santa Baby" sung by Madonna
Confessional: "Santa Baby" sung by Eartha Kitt

 

Nothing of the sort, Bill. A solid Augustinian brother you are.

 

....................

Thanks,

 

PS

I feel misunderstood, however, I accept your criticism; I am not at all for non-RA or non-GAAP institutions, good heavens no, I was just asking a question. However, I do not accept rude words, and I found some terms used in this thread not appropriate in their tenor - That's all that I would like to say for now.

Lord God,
I am filled with irritations
over some criticism that has taken place at degreeinfo.com.
Help me overcome this feeling of irritation
and to cultivate a sense of patience.
Restore in me a sense of prayer
and a total confidence in You,
and enable me to accept these occurrences
with true Christian equanity
while avoiding bitterness or retaliation.
If I deserve criticism, let me realize it
so that I may change my ways.
If I do not deserve it,
let me be gratious in being vindicated,
in imitation of Your Son, our Lord Jesus Christ.
Let us all learn from this expericnce
so that we may grow into better human beings.

(adapted from a prayer by Rev. Evans)

adelheid

 

Re: PS

 

Re: PS

This thread is a strange mixture of hostility and self-indulgence, isn't it?

I'm still not clear what is wrong about taking classes from the school you cited.

We can all stipulate that it isn't accredited, that it makes several very misleading claims, and that use of its degrees to mislead those who don't know better would be unethical.

But given all that, what's wrong with taking some free classes if they appeal to you?

Personally, I am not interested in their offerings. What's more, they almost certainly wouldn't be interested in me, since I would refuse to sign their precious loyalty oath. I also have doubts about whether their faculty are really qualified to teach me anything that I'd want to spend any time learning.

But there probably are people out there who are interested in this kind of stuff. So if the classes were taken for self-interest, in much the spirit that somebody reads a book, and if they are offered free of charge, where's the harm?

 

Re: Re: PS

Which reminds me, Bill. Your DegreeInfo Loyalty Oath comes up for renewal on January 15, 2003. Each DegreeInfo senior member must renew annually.

The DegreeInfo Loyalty Oath

The member shall place his right hand on the most recent copy of Bears' Guide, and repeat the following.

As a loyal senior member of DegreeInfo I pledge to uphold the constitution of Distance Learning, to defend its cause, to delineate its benefits and to discourage its demise.

Here Here,
Here Here,
Here Here

SO BE IT!

 

What's the harm?

Church-historical fakery is a harm against truth (independent of one's religious views, if any). Further, the name of this, uh, school is clearly liable to mislead; specifically, it misleads the reader into thinking that, but for a typo, if written, or a minor glitch in hearing, if spoken, this is a reputable--indeed, legitimately accredited--school of the liberal Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod.

This gambit has been seen before (Cormell University, et cetera et ad nauseam ). Suppose there stood written, or worse, you heard spoken, one of the following:

Bob Jone's University or Bob Joan's University
Andrewes University
Chandler School of Theology at Emery University
Clermont School of Theology
Moody Bible Institution
Star King School of Ministry
Bethany (maybe somebody else ought to finish this one).

Seewhutimean?

Now Adelheid here (the Carpathian peasant would kiss your hand, but he gets woozy when he bows) is far too astute to get embroiled in something like that. All she did was ask, and got pooped on for no very good reason. She was hardly shilling for this outfit, after all.

Now it's possible this is all an honest mistake on the part of Clifton, Veerman, et al. Well, it could too be. On the other hand, the old C.P. observed in passing (out) that the logo of our li'l ole Concordia Theologica Whatchamacallit's church body is a pretty fair knock-off of the logo of the Evangelical Presbyterian Church. (The wings of the rubbery-looking dove are a bit off, if memory serves.)

"Pecca fortiter," as Staupitz told Luther Rice.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: levicoff

Just to claim my ground...

I agree, it is quite idiotic to claim not to be a denomination. I see this changing all around.
I agree, many CoC preachers do teach a baptismal regeneration. Also, I see this changing.

I didn't know that Pepperdine had Ben Stein, that definitely raises them up a notch...
LaGard Smith is no longer at Pepperdine, he moved a couple of years ago to Lipscomb, in Nashville. While I have enjoyed many of his books, and even met him in person (where I heard a wonderful series of lectures), lately he has been known for saying that Youth Ministries is the devil incarnate.

About the instruments... well, somebodies gotta do it.

clint

 

Fakery (in any subject) is a offense against truth, simply by definition.

We can agree on that. We can agree that this school totally sucks. But does enrolling in a crappy school lead to guilt by association or something? Does it constitute some kind of ritual impurity that a student would have to sacrifice a lamb to atone for? (I'm not a theologian, so I don't know...)

I suppose that the stench might rub off if a student claimed a degree from it or tried to use it on a resume. In this case, that would probably be a very bad move.

But if a student's intent was only to take a class or two for personal reasons, to pass the time between TV shows or something, does the fakery really matter? It beats going down to the local tavern and pounding down beers.

I suppose that it might matter. If a theological school misrepresents a rather arcane corner of church history, how do we know that it might not misrepresent a lot more? But (speaking cynically) misrepresention is part and parcel of the higher education experience. Students always have to employ a little skepticism. (Again, theology may be different...)

I guess that apart from our stipulation that it is unaccredited, amateurish and ethically challenged, my response to this school is that it is worthless for my purposes. I certainly wouldn't bother with it. But I wouldn't crucify anyone who did take a class from these guys either, so long as they didn't try to misrepresent what they were doing.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: levicoff

For anyone interested about Smith's views on things...

http://www.christianity.com/CC/article/0,,PTID25485|CHID127205|CIID344305,00.html
clint

 

Interesting stuff. I can't say that I'm surprised that LaGard has gone somewhat off the wall. His Out on a Broken Limb is a classic, as well as his Fallen Shepards, Scattered Sheep (which was written long before it busting priests became fashionable in the R.C. Church).

Nonetheless, he is certainly not the first example of a well-known author going off the wall. David Wilkerson, the well-known Pentecostal preacher and author, spent many lectures trying to prove that when Jesus turned water into wine, it really wasn't wine. Harold Camping has never lived down his "88 Reasons that Jesus Will Return in 1988." John Warwick Montgomery, the ultimate Lutheran apologist (who has been affiliated with more than one degree mill) tap-danced his way through the notion that Martin Luther was not anti-semitic. Ad infinitum, ad nauseam.

The extent to which Smith is an apologist for Restoration theology, however, is quite interesting. Notwithstanding that he comes out of liberal ol' Pepperdine, he is quite the spokeperson for baptismal regeneration and the a capella movement. One might, in that sense, call him a CofC Fundie.

 

No doubt, he is. I always thought it was interesting that he was at Pepperdine. He is, I suppose, the most famous and most read traditional author in Churches of Christ (of course, Max Lucado is far and away the most read author, but he would NEVER be considered traditional...).

In my more conservative days (of long ago), I really appreciated Smith. In fact, I still do. I really have benefited from his works that deal with social issues (like the ACLU, The Devil's Advocate and others that deal with diverse topics like abortion, new age religion, etc).
But now that I have raised my sights a bit, and recognize that not all Christians must believe just like me, I find his works that address Church of Christ issues to be a bit useless. They are often contradictory (I found his book on fellowship to be this way).
I don't know if anyone else here even knows who we are talking about, but it has been fun anyway.
Btw, have you read his book Sodom's Second Coming ? Just wondered what you thought about it, if you had.

Also, just because it is VERY mildly interesting.... Max Lucado is actually from the same home town as my family. In fact, he grew up right around the corner from my dad. Max is the same age as one of my cousins, and they went to school together. He is a pretty nice guy, though I really don't know him well. I apparently don't write as well as he does, though...

clint

 

...you mean John Warwick Montgomery the ultimate generic evangelical and liberal Lutheran apologist...

 

Say Uncle

Thought I'd pass this message on from Jimmy Clifton. I don't believe he posts here any more.

Dennis Ruhl


Well, well, well, after having been off this and degreeinfo for nearly a month, I decided to come back and read the posts. Much to my dismay, nothing's changed. There has been nothing educational, informative, new or prolific on here. It's the "same old, same old." And, on degreeinfo, they are even worse. There is a post by Dr. Steve Levicoff that is simply insulting towards another member. Then, one "Uncle Janko" makes note of my previous involvement in the Evangelical Protestant Church. I have had no involvement with them in nearly two years and have completely disassociated myself with and from them. They have moved in a direction not in accordance with the original intent. Uncle Janko claims the church history on their web page is inaccurate. He is wrong. He needs to read THE EVANGELICAL PROTESTANT MOVEMENT by Charles Hanko, which is a history of the Evangelical Protestant Church, available from the Congregational Library in Boston. A few articles in some issues of The Congregationalist last year will also correct his uninformed statement. Um, uninformed, a typical characteristic of some who post on these forums. As for me I am pulling a 4.00 GPA at both Golden State School of Theology (a DETC candidate as of May of this year), working on an MDiv, and at California College for Health Sciences (DETC), working on an MS. CCHS is very difficult but challenging and the courses are incredibly interesting, instructive and informative. I will begin SATS or Univ. of the Western Cape this month for the ThD. Happy New Year to everyone. I hope someone lets Uncle Janko know he is wrong about the EPC history and my involvement with them.

Jimmy Clifton

 

Re: Say Uncle