TUI - Copy of Accreditation Status Report

I understand, and you bring a fair assessment.

 

TUI

 

I know of no school or institution that conducts their accreditation business publicly or on a public forum as some people in this forum wants TUI to do. I am more familiar with hospital accreditation. They are not conducted on a public forum. People use the word completely 100% DL as if it is a bad word. DL that includes weekend, two to four weeks do not add value to the education in my opinion especially where it does not include live class education and live direct communication with students and professors. While I have not been in that environment those that have been told me, it was more a waste of their time.

TUI remains a cutting age institution. The world itself is now DL. Those opposed to DL learning cannot function in my work environment. Many things 100% DL and 100% electronic. For example, in 1997 the first time my supervisor and co-workers ever saw me was the day I reported for duty. Everything was done 100% electronic and DL. That is the wave of the future folks. Employee records are 100% electronic. Absolutely no paper record. When trainings are conducted, they are done via close circuit DL TV. DL is not a bad word.

Dr. Okonkwo is dead wrong in his analysis. The probation was not all about TUI. It does include TUC and indeed the main campus. What Touro has gone through and is going through is not unusual. Touro College/University System does not have to conduct their business on the internet. The point is as at today, TUI is accredited. They have outgrown their status based on the number of students and it is a recommendation that that they seek accreditation on their own. That is the norm as I was told independently. Why is that a problem? It only demonstrates that people making opinionated comments do not understand accreditation process.

I like the education I am getting at TUI. As a TUI student I am more in a position to know about TUI education than anyone else outside of Touro system. All these comments are irrelevant until June next year. I think we ought to wait and allow TUI and TUC to sought things out.

Why is Han on a crusade on Touro if I may ask? What is her interest? I have my faith and confidence on the administration at Touro. They know better than all of us in this forum about accreditation process. Their professors are well published and continue to be published in scholarly journals. Their live class delivery is cutting edge. What MSA did is a recommendation. I have never seen any accreditation report that usually would not include recommendations. What Han got are simply recommendations. They are recommendations that should be taken seriously. I am sure Touro system will not allow the future of approximately seven or eight thousand students (TUI/TUC combined estimates) and their contracts with the military and others to be in jeopardy.

I am not going to call WASC about Touro; it is irrelevant at this time. Besides, WASC won't be disclosing their pending action any way when they have not taken action. There is no way WASC could be disclosing information about pending school action.

Why should TUI or TUC be making public statements. It is not necessary since the school is not de-accredited. I expect more informed comments from people in this forum not opinionated comments based on false assumptions and attack on a young institution that have cutting edge educational process.

I think the attack on Touro is unwarranted and should stop. We all should wait until their accreditation is revoked before the attack. That won’t happen. I am not going anywhere. I am going full speed ahead with TUI. When the smoke clears, I will obtain my accredited doctorate at Touro and in my field I will be ready to compare success and pay with any one of similar experience and education from any where and I will not be too far behind.

I think this issue should best be left for Touro College/University system to sought out and reserve the comments and attacks until they fail.

 

Despite what I have said or written about this matter, I am inclined to believe that TUI will eventually achieve RA but major changes have to come first. TUI’s 100% DL will be discontinued, otherwise, it will unlikely secure RA in WASC jurisdiction. [/B][/QUOTE]



TUI is already RA. Do you mean achieve RA independently?
You seems to believe that short residencies are better than live class presentations that is the hall mark of TUI. I do not share that view. Those schools that have short residencies often do not have live classes. They do their work principally on their own. At TUI, access to Professors other than during live class is guranteed to within 24 hours. In my experience, it has been within few hours and in many cases instantaneous.

TUI already made changes. I know they have and you are not in a position to know of the changes.

I agree with you on one point. When the smoke clears TUI and TUC will be independently accredited or they may be combined and accredited as one school. Either way is fine with me.

Now, I have to go back to work and my studies.

Regards.

Oko
Oko

 

Actually, it was becuase of your statements in the last thread about this. YOU said do not go on heresay, so I simply e-mailed MSA and they sent me the information. They are not trying to hide anything. Also, someone (a student I think) was told by TUI that the probation was over and no other findings, so it seemed that mis-information was out there, so clear it wup with fact. I think you were right, that it is best to go on fact.

I can understand why you want complete silence on the issue, but you once said wait until the report comes out from MSA before we discuss, now wait another year before we discuss. It seems that TUI has the same thinking, sweep it under the rug and it will go away. What about student that are in the program? Don't they have a right to know? Since some students are finding out here, it is sad.

I personally do not like deception, especially about accreditation situations. I am not saying that TUI is deceiveing yet, but they are defineately close to the line, and as time goes by, with no statement to their students or public, they are approaching that line fast.

The only interaction I had with TUI was during my time to find a doctorate. If you do a search of THIS forum, many said AACSB was in their near future. I ALMOST did it, which makes me believe, if I was that close, many other may have been. I know, someone who has an opinion, that does not have a vested interested in the situation, go figure.

Knowledge and discussion is a good thing, like most discussioons here, it is just mostly opinion, and a few facts. It should be discussed, and every perspective brings knowledge.

 

Oko: "It only demonstrates that people making opinionated comments do not understand accreditation process."



Cehi: I think people should be entitled to their opinions, always. However, I agree with you that some people usually try hard to make their opinions to be facts. I also know that some people in this forum always do their best to express facts that are supported by evidences rather than making blatant, generic opinions as most people do. So, it is what what I call readers beware. Don't accept what you read at face value. People have different agenda in this forum. Thank you.

 

You seems to believe that short residencies are better than live class presentations that is the hall mark of TUI. I do not share that view. Those schools that have short residencies often do not have live classes. They do their work principally on their own. At TUI, access to Professors other than during live class is guranteed to within 24 hours. In my experience, it has been within few hours and in many cases instantaneous.


Oko [/B][/QUOTE]

Oko,

I think short residences are highly beneficial at the dissertation phase. Defending a proposal or a dissertation over the internet is not exactly an easy task. It also prevents fraud, at least you get to see that the person registered is the same person that is doing the degree. You will be surprised how many people pay to get their degrees done by other people, if the degree is 100% with no face-to-face contact, no proctored exams, etc, makes fraud a lot more easirer. I'm aware of few cases where the students paid as little as 5K to get a master's degree done by another individual. While some students might find that residencies are not needed some other might need them, so having "optional residencies" can be a better approach too.

 

Han, I think you need to read the MSA information about Touro again. I think you misunderstood the content of the information. MSA has determined that TUI and TUC are separately accreditable and recommended that they seek accreditation and they MSA will continue to include the two branch campuses until they obtain candidacy or reach accreditation status on their own. They gave Touro College a deadline to do so. Now tell me what is negative about that recommendation. If you think there is something negative about it, you do not understand accreditation process and ought to stay away from further comments on it. Their recommendation is in line with any other accreditation body. Only less than 5% of accreditation review is ever commendable in hospital settings and even then it is always accompanied by recommendations as well. I t should be similar for schools as well.

You know my take on AACSB. It is not important to me although for the record and in the interest of full disclosures two of the institutions I graduated from are AACSB accredited but that does not mean anything to me and it does not signify that I know more than those who happen to graduate from non AACSB colleges. It just means that the schools wanted to spend money on irrelevant alphabet soups. Never mind that someone AACSB schools may want their faculty from AACSB, they are only a handful of such and in many cases good work history and record of achievements will easily trump that nonsense. I could give examples but that would be another day. I just want to clear that from your mind. I am in the health care profession. The only thing that matters to us is professional licensures, registrations and board certifications. Not alphabet soup irrelevant and money making accreditation such as AACSB and the likes.

Back to accreditation. Touro has not hidden anything from me. I don't know what you are talking about. When I called to inquire the individual I spoke with simply told me the issue about the maturity of TUI and TUC to seek independent accreditation because of their growth. If anything TUI and TUC ought to be commended for their rapid growth in so short a time when many schools are reducing staffing and closing courses/programs for lack of enrollment.

Yes. I said do not go by hearsay. Now that you have the report, I do not see anything negative about MSA recommendations. Can you point them out? May be we are reading different report. I know I am reading yours from MSA. I have graduated from two branch campuses that were independently accredited way before I got there but one of them by law will remain perpetual branch campus.

Why did TUI and TUC not seek WASC before? They could not have sought accreditation because they were new and may not have been viable enough at that time. As branch campuses unless they receive approval form the main campus they can’t just go on fishing on their own.

I noticed that you took offense since I said your school Greenoble was not AACSB accredited. It was for your information only since AACSB web site did not list Greenoble as accredited at the doctoral level. It is up to you whether to make sure the school was AACSB accredited at the doctoral level.

I don't know about TUI seeking ACSB accreditation. I am not a business student at TUI. I think in your passion to find negative about TUI you have gone beyond reason trying to fish for faults where there are none. MSA has made recommendation. Let Touro College do their work.

You know what if hospital accreditation is anything to go by, if by June 2005, TUI and TUC in the unlikely event are not able to make progress towards independent accreditation, they can simply ask for delay and other relief. Accreditation is not adversarial as you may think. It is only adversarial only if the institution refuses to abide by the findings.

I think TUI and TUC should be commended for reaching a quick maturity in less than 10 years after their establishment. How many institutions can boast of that? I think Dr. Lander- the System President ought to be commended for his accomplishments and for establishing what is fast becoming a global institution.

I am very pleased about the MSA findings and recommendations about TUI and TUC. At the end of the day, they will become better than they already are now and grow even bigger.

So you want TUI to start telling every caller that MSA recommended that they seek separate accreditation. That is ridiculous. TUI and TUC should already have known that with their growth that at a point they MUST seek separate accreditation.

Your assertions that TUI is hiding something or I want it swept under the rug are just figments of your imagination. I don’t know what you are talking about. I was the one who told you that certain portions of accreditation are public record which could be requested. Now that you have it, you are yet to tell me what is it about the report that is negative. That TUI and TUC are separately accrediatble with recommendation that they do so as quickly as possible is not negative. IT IS POSITIVELY POSITIVE.
You are making much ado about nothing.

Have a good day.

oko

 

Cehi: I agree with you 100%. Have a great day.


Oko

 

Han,

How are you doing today? If you are Kristy, how far are you on your doctorate program at Grenoble? If I have the time to travel to France, Grenoble would be a great program since I live close to New Orleans. Go back to an earlier post that you indicated TUI is “almost deceiving” by not releasing latest information on accreditation status to its students. As a current TUI’s student, I disagree with this assumption. I had face-to-face, phone and email conversations with Dr. Gold about TUI’s accreditation status. He has always given me the latest information on TUI because he knows that I love TUI and really concern about TUI’s future. Kristy, in the past, I did share your position that TUI should release its accreditation’s status to the public as soon as it received any information from its accreditators. After seeing all the exchanges about TUI the last couple of weeks, I now know that I was being very naïve and understand why TUI’s officials decide not to release its accreditation’s information to the public. I do expect that you and everyone on this board entitled to have personal opinions. If you continue to see TUI’s actions as “deception”, I guess we have to agree on disagree.

 

Fair Enough, we are entitled to disagree.

Please see other comments on THIS thread that were told differently, and are mad about it. I was never lied to, I just don't have the information from TUI.

I can't resist - on the MSA, they have TUI as a Master's category (EXACT same category as Grenoble on AACSB's site), so are you saying TUI's doctorate is not RA? and TUI's program is not accredited at the doctorate level?????? I am sure the logic will be changed, but since oytu brought it up, I wanted you to see they are categorized EXACTLY the same.... he he.

I posted the facts, then waited, and since there was MUCH discussion (look at the thread), I posted my comments. Again, it is turning to me, not the issue. Please go attach the other posters on this thread, not me.

I am sure Touro can do their job as I post to degreeinfo, if they can't I would be worried, you seem to think your university is too fragile for discussion.

Actually, I was not really interested in the issue, until you told me to go and find the REAL information and not go by heresay, which I did, and here we are.

We don't have to discuss what you like and don't like, we are all allowed our opinions and to post then, unless they are in violation with the TOS, which this thread is not. So if you don't want to discuss this anymore, stop, it is your decision, like all of ours to discuss issues.

 

Oko,

I think short residences are highly beneficial at the dissertation phase. Defending a proposal or a dissertation over the internet is not exactly an easy task. It also prevents fraud, at least you get to see that the person registered is the same person that is doing the degree. You will be surprised how many people pay to get their degrees done by other people, if the degree is 100% with no face-to-face contact, no proctored exams, etc, makes fraud a lot more easirer. I'm aware of few cases where the students paid as little as 5K to get a master's degree done by another individual. While some students might find that residencies are not needed some other might need them, so having "optional residencies" can be a better approach too. [/B][/QUOTE]



I agree with you. Please note that fraud is everywhere including B& M schools, Military Academies etc. I have seen fraud happen in B & M Schools. I agree with you about the optional residencies. For schools like TUI it will really take a determined fraudster to complete all course work day after day and then dissertation phase for up to four years or may be three at the very least. I won’t do it for a million dollars. The time and stress of the program is simply not worth it for me plus when caught jail and bad name that could follow. It is simply not worth it.

I disagree with those who think their preference is the only better approach. I do not subscribe to "mine is better than yours" type of statements I often read in this forum. For example AACSB is better than none AACSB schools? Any proof? No. At a point in life where you go is irrelevant. The former Treasury Secretary O'Neil graduated from Fresno State and he went on to head one of the biggest companies in the United States, ALCOA (sp) and then a cabinet level Treasury Secretary in the United States government. Don't you think if he wanted to teach at Harvard, they would welcome him with a red carpet? Correct me if I am wrong. Did former President Reagan go to Harvard? He graduated from Eureka College, IL. If he wanted to teach at Harvard after leaving office (all things being equal) or even before he became President don’t you think any school would welcome him with open arms? The United States educational system has matured well enough that any accredited college degree is as good as any other. There will always be some who would pick and choose. It is their own right just as there will always be those who would not hire minorities for one reason or the other regardless of their qualifications. This is part of life that we cannot control but can reasonably mitigate by being better than average.

Sometimes people in this forum give little credit to individuals and more to schools. Some individuals regardless of their settings will excel. Oops let me get off the soap box. I happen to work with some of the best minds in the health care field and from some of the most renowned schools in the world. They do not share some of the statements I read here. This forum is supposed to be an avenue where people get good advise about DL education. Sometimes it is attack, attack and more attack. Sometimes opinions are stated as facts.

I once sat on a board where an Excelsior graduate was selected over other applicants some of whom are from household name schools in the United States for a prestigious health personnel system in the United States. Those who think by going to certain schools will just have doors flung open for them are in for some rude awakening. Have a good afternoon.

 

Hey Bao!

Grenoble, in a word, is going great!

I agree with your assessment on TUI, I do not think they are deceiving yet, just going that way - time will tell how they proceed with the issue. If they are at least telling the student's the story, I think it is a right move, but at least one other student was told some mis-information. Not the way I would do it, but understand their views. I can see why they wouldn't, why call attention to the situation, but it may elminate some of the confusion. Anyway, time will tell. I think they will be "at capacity" until this issue is resolved.

Lastly, I think everybody is pretty universal that the faculty, program, and content is wonderful. I don't think these things come into question. I agree with Oko that alphabet soup does not guarantee the school's quality. I don't think quality is the issue, it is more of getting through the hurdles to get the accreditation. Not sure of their chances, based on the hurdles and bureaucracy, rather than quality.

 

Re: TUI accreditation

Scorpio, I just wanted to repost your quote, as it was a very honest, factual, non-emotional response. When I read this, I think TU has a good plan in place. It just goes to show, it is not necessarily what you say, but how you say it.... thanks.

 

Oko - the matter of short residencies versus on-line formats is largely a matter of personal preference. You seem to like Touro's approach - fine. I like NSU's approach where I spent some 75 days in residency. If I had it to do over I'd spend more time in residency, not less. Each of us has preferences for learning styles and I think it is very difficult to draw universal conclusions.

Also, I'm not sure how short residencies can be conducted with out "live classes". I'm not understanding your point.

On another point you said:

"For example AACSB is better than none AACSB schools? Any proof?"

Try this. Go to an MBA ranking list (for US schools) - be it USNews, Business Week, etc. Check out the top schools on the list. Ask yourself "How many are AACSB?" Your answer will be "100%". There is a strong correlation (although certainly not causation) between AACSB accreditation and top rankings. Period. Sure, you can get a good education at a non-AACSB school. But I don't think you can argue against the notion that top rated schools (by academics and recruiters) are AACSB.

Regards - Andy

------------------------


You seems to believe that short residencies are better than live class presentations that is the hall mark of TUI. I do not share that view. Those schools that have short residencies often do not have live classes. They do their work principally on their own. Oko [/B][/QUOTE]

 

I think I read a faq somewhere that Grenoble doesn't require the GMAT for the DBA. If so, how did they get that by the good ole AACSB?

Anyway, if the faq is about the school you are going to I am jealous! Couple of weeks in France learning about European business. That sounds to me like one great learning experience.

And a lot of fun!

Just my opinion

 

http://www.aacsb.edu/accreditation/

AACSB International was founded in 1916 and began its accreditation function with the adoption of the first standards in 1919

The AACSB starting accrediting schools 85 years ago. What is taking some of these schools so long to realize the value of AACSB? Or is it now perceived as a marketing tool to combat the for-profit DL schools many of us like?

If you really want to know what the AACSB is all about research the reasons behind the forming of the ACBSP. Makes for some very interesting reading.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://chronicle.com/prm/weekly/v49/i41/41b01804.htm

Accreditation is not high status if everyone has it. So lets make it difficult for smaller schools and for profits! Then the big state schools with plenty of tax payer money and the large private schools with endowments will have an edge over the UOPs and Capellas.

I hope Touro gets its act together. Maybe I will consider them in the future.

I put my MBA plans on hold since business is booming.

Just my humble opinion

 

My main reason for suggesting that TUI may have to abandon its 100% DL doctoral program is that WASC seems to frown at doctoral program that don’t have any on-campus component. If I recall correctly, WASC has never accredited any such program in the past. To secure RA from WASC, I think that it could be probably easier if TUI should consider the inclusion of short residency in its doctoral programs.

I have always wished TUI and its students the best. If you search degreeinfo.com archive, you’ll see that I used to defend TUI and its programs in the past, especially in its early days when the school was facing onslaught from left, right, and center because of its unusual arrangements with Touro College of New York. I clashed umpteen times with many degreeingo.com contributors, especially one Lewchuk, who almost equated TUI to a degree mill. I am certainly not anti TUI. I am against unnecessary promos and lies that are commonplace here, especially by some TUI students.

You may call it preference but I have always thought that short residency is a necessity at the doctoral level. Short residencies offer doctoral students the opportunity to interact with their fellow students, professors, and other scholars. It’s so strange to spend more than five years studying at a university without setting foot on the university’s premises and without interacting in-person with any of your professors and classmates. Even if it’s not a requirement, I will advise PhD students to pay at least one visit to their school.