Touro or Northcentral Education PhD

Originally posted by oko
Response: Your point here is inaccurate. You cannot solely on your own make such sweeping generalization without the facts to back you up. To compare TUI, TUC, NCU and similar institutions with other older institutions is unfair.

OKO, I do have facts. I gave the fact that NCU and TUI have not established their utility for those that wish to obtain full-time tenure-track university positions. My evidence was that there are currently not examples that can prove me wrong. Can you produce evidence that my statement is inaccurate? If so, then please direct me to the websites of the universities that employ NCU and TUI graduates as full-time faculty and I will happy retract my statement. It is perfectly fair for me to compare TUI and NCU to older institutions, since you were the one to make the statement that these degrees have “unlimited utility”. Please demonstrate how they have utility for those who wish to be full-time university factulty.

These fine institutions are too new to produce graduates eligible to seek tenure track positions.

I do not accuse these institutions of not being “fine”. I am excited about them and hope that others like them become established. I agree with you that the reason that they do not CURRENTLY have “unlimited utility” is precisely because they are too new. Perhaps when they are not so new, we’ll see them have utility for those who wish to be professors.

Having said that, I have seen NCU graduates in a college catalogue in West Virginia.

I did a search in the college catalogues for West Virginia University and West Virginia State College and found no mention of NCU among the faculty. Please specify which college in West Virginia employs NCU graduates as faculty. I will be happy to concede your point.

There are NCU doctoral graduates making decisions that are likely to have impact on most Americans including you and I. I am constraints from being too specific here. When this individual seeks teaching position someday from any school (no exceptions here), he is too likely to get it.

Until you can specify who this individual is, I cannot take this claim seriously. Who are the other NCU doctoral graduates that you mention and what important decisions are they making that will affect me?

I have examples across the United States. I have seen people holding Ivy League degrees or similar who could not find an adjunct positions (I live in DC area) and I have also seen people holding non ivy leagues degrees who experience no difficulties in getting teaching positions. It all depends on your area of specialization and your degree of experience.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. Faculty positions are very difficult to get (even if you have a degree from a prestigious institution). You have made my point. Just because you have an accredited degree does not mean that it has “unlimited utility”. Just ask those unemployed that you referenced above.

On a personal note, I attended a conference last week in DC and yours truly was presented with a couple of adjunct faculty offers. At this time however, I am unable to accept.

Congratulations! I have been both an adjunct and full-time faculty member at regionally accredited institutions (I am currently an administrator at a state unviersity) and just presented three invited papers at a major conference in Chicago this week.

I stand by my unlimited utility statement. When I look at the world especially within the United States, I look at it from my family and friends experience. Someone once took me to task in this forum for that but I am unfazed. We immigrated here not too long ago and went to state schools and regional schools and all of us are at work from the big five accounting firms to respectable positions within the governments. These include teaching positions.

You have reason to be proud of your accomplishments. Anyone who comes to this country and seeks education to become a productive member of society has my admiration!

When I was in an undergrad school in the south in an HBCU institution, there were those who said we could not find jobs because we attended HBCU. Those people are no longer making those statements today. At the end of the day, my friend, it is what you make out of yourself not necessarily what the school made out of you. There is an unlimited utility for accredited schools diplomas period. If you believe otherwise, you are limiting yourself not the society.

Congratulations for proving those short-sighted naysayers wrong. I would say that it is you (even more than your diploma) that has unlimited utility. If you earn a TUI or NCU doctorate and get a teaching spot at a university, you will be helping to give that degree more utility for future graduates.

People who make unfair statements about distance education are grossly unaware of what is happening around them in an increasingly digital world. Why do you think airlines are struggling these days? It has less to do with 911. People are no longer traveling. I could from Washington, DC deliver live presentations to Beijing, Bern and London without incurring travel expense. I see it happen in my line of work all the time. In my last job, I often deliver live presentations to several employees based across several US cities.

I agree with you. Many people make unfair and inaccurate statements about distance learning. For my dissertation, I went through documented studies spanning over 80 years of research into distance learning. Over the years, many have made unfair and inaccurate statements—Degreeinfo does not even scratch the surface!

What is the difference in acquiring education similarly? Europe has been doing it for ages.

I’m not certain what you are asking here.

The issue here should be how many schools in the west have sought and be denied such accreditation? Eastern United States have more schools and perhaps educationally more innovative than the rest of the United States.

You may be right that there are more innovative schools in the east than in the west. California has nearly 200 colleges and universities (more than any other state), but Wyoming has only one university in the entire state.

Thank you as always for your sensible contributions to this forum. You and I are not too far apart. Obviously you know more than I do as an academia. However, having been in the real world of employment for the past 15 years with no god fatherism and no "ivy league degrees" (no regrets here) but now work shoulder to shoulder with the ivy’s and similar and basically make same money, I am at a more advantage point to speak to this issue than many in this forum. The fact that I am an immigrant who came here in a not too distant past makes it even more special that I dispel some of the broad statements made here sometimes. The bottom line is any accredited university diploma is all you need. The ability to get a job depends on the demands of the work place and the professional degree(s) one hold. If market demands it no one cares how and where you got it. Again, I have too many examples to believe otherwise.

I agree that we are not very far apart at all. Although I have spent most of the past 17 years in academia, I have also been in the “real world”, having worked for a law enforcement agency and a major corporation (Intel). I have also served as a professional consultant for several Fortune 500 corporations, law firms, city and county governments, professional associations and the U.S. Military. I also agree that, ultimately, it is what you can do--more than the institution from which you graduated--that will determine your success. We are not far apart at all.

Have a great day.

Thank you. I hope that you have a great one as well.

All the best,

Tony Pina
Northeastern Illinois Univerisity

 

Oko and Anthony,

Great thread, guys. Keep it coming!