Too many people with online DBAs and PhDs?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by RFValve, Jul 18, 2010.

  1. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I know this has been discussed quite few times before. I'm with the idea that the online DBAs and PhDs from for profit schools will saturate the market in no time as they are manufacturing graduates in the hundreds level. Many members disagree as they feel that online doctoral graduates only represent a small fraction of the total number of graduates.

    As there is non tangible data for this statement. It is very hard to know if the number of doctorate graduates from online for profit schools are significant in comparison to graduates from traditional schools.

    I came across this site that is a repository of resumes online with a sample of more than 200,000 resumes. I searched for resumes with the key words: "Doctor of Business Administration", DBA, PhD in Business, "Doctor of Philosophy in Business" and found that the vast majority of resumes with business doctorates were from places like UoP, Argosy, NorthCentral, Capella, Walden and other for profit online schools.

    You can search this by yourself by using the link below:

    Resume Search at

    If this is not evidence that for profits are graduating just too many doctors, I don't know what else can be done to offer proof of this.
  2. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member

    What percentage of the 200,000 resumes had doctorates of the type you mentioned?
  3. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    You can see it by yourself in the link. Out of 298,000, 1687 returned with the keyword "Doctor of business administration". I only read the first 4 pages of resumes but was surprised that most the resumes included either degree mills or from online schools. I did not go over the 1687 and generated statistics as I'm not getting paid for this research but I'm confident that the trend towards a majority of degrees from online schools would continue if you keep reading them.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 18, 2010
  4. EllisZ

    EllisZ Member

    I'm not sure I'd lump degree mills with "online schools" if the online school is RA.
  5. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    This was not my intention, I just came across also few CVs will degree mills.
  6. EllisZ

    EllisZ Member

    Understood. I figured as much. I just wanted to clarify.
  7. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    If what you are saying is true, it might really be a waste of time and money to get a doctorate degree in general, and especially be a waste to get one online. YIKES! Now I'm getting freaked out again.
  8. StefanM

    StefanM New Member

    I seriously question the ROI of a doctorate from an online institution or from a for-profit school.

    IMO, unless one can do a PhD in a residential environment from a respected institution, one is probably wasting time and money unless one has clear evidence that the degree will benefit them.

    EdDs are another matter, but even then I would stay away from an online or a for-profit school. There are several DL options from non-profits that would be more beneficial.
  9. Cyber

    Cyber New Member

    I refuse to believe that getting a doctoral degree online is a waste of time overall. I'm sure folks pursuing online degrees have a reason, need etc. for using them. However, one thing that may also be true is that most online doctoral students/degree holders may not have been interested in a doctoral degree if it weren't possible to get them conveniently online without the hassles of traditional on-site programs. Conclusively, since every online doctoral student is unique, it is obvious that the outcome will be different for every graduate.
  10. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    It is not my intention to discourage people from doing Doctoral degrees but just to be realistic about their expectations. From the resumes that I read of people holding doctorates from online schools, I did not notice anyone working as a top executive at a forture 500 company or teaching at a prestigious University. Most of these people hold regular jobs that normally don't require a PhD or DBA.
    I think it is important to have realistic expectations of the degree that you are pursing by looking at what others are doing with similar degrees just not to get false illusions.
  11. rickyjo

    rickyjo New Member

    No, I think this is good, the way I would at it is that when online/for profit college becomes the norm people will have little choice but to accept it. This is just the early bumpy stages of a shift that will do everyone a lot of good. Additionally, I suspect the over-saturation of unemployed doctors may have something to do with graduates being picky and expecting unrealistic outcomes from their high level education more than an unwillingness to hire.
  12. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    I serached on the schools below and here were the hits:
    Northcentral - 26 hits (several were Northcentral Tech)
    Capella - 155 hits
    Argosy - 156 hits
    Walden - 262 hits

    Out of all the resumes, this does not seem like a high number if there are over 200K resumes. And this search was for all degrees - not just doctoral level.
  13. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Yes, low for overall but check for doctoral graduates in business.
  14. warguns

    warguns Member

    Here's someone who's well qualified:


    PhD International Peace (Summa Cum Laude) Year 2007
    Theological University Major International studies and religions studies
    Pasadena, CA, USA

    PhD Economics (Summa Cum Laude) Year - 1998
    Shepperton University
    London, England

    PhD Business Management (Summa Cum Laude) Year - 2001
    Shepperton University
    London, England
  15. mcjon77

    mcjon77 Member

    The only result from such "saturation" is that those particular schools will have poor reputations amongst academia (in many respects, they already do) and folks with doctorates from those schools will all be scrambling for positions at tier 4 institutions.

    I worked for several years at a university (non-teaching role). Whether it was deserved or not, University of Phoenix degrees were frowned upon by those who had traditional PhDs. Keep in mind, this was not a tier 1 school, but a tier 4 regional university. Of course, we hired many folks who either had UoP degrees, or were enrolled in a UoP doctoral program. However, this was more due to the fact that we couldn't attract candidates from more prestigious (non-profit) schools. At the upper level schools that I have been affiliated with, those individuals would not have been competitive with a UoP degree. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule, but remember, most people are not exceptional.

    Incidentally, the EXACT same things were said in the past about people getting Ed.D. in education from Nova, rather than getting a PhD in the professor's specialty from a more traditional program.
  16. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    This is the type of individuals that seem to have a lack of confidence issue. It is amazing that he has no problems listing his 3 degrees from a well known degree mill.
  17. EllisZ

    EllisZ Member

    It certainly calls into question both his judgement and his integrity. It's like someone who puts a tattoo on their neck: It's a huge sign that says "don't hire me".
  18. cravenco

    cravenco New Member

    Looked up Harrison Middleton University and the term Doctor of Arts. Phillip and I are good!
  19. StefanM

    StefanM New Member

    There are a wide variety of reasons to pursue doctoral-level education online. However, this kind of education is not an effective substitute for traditional, residential programs. It doesn't matter how challenging the program is. The market simply treats online doctorates differently.
  20. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    But who is the market?

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