the use of the title Doctor

I believe they have the same problem. As in the U.S., many of their plans are not fully funded.

 

The inflation began with the MD which is an undergraduate degree in GB & AU (?). But hey, I am with you. Let's do away with the Masters degree as part of pesky tradition and make them all doctor of something or other. In fact, forget the bachelors degree at Ivy League schools make them all doctorates because the amount of work and intellect is required is superior to non ivy league schools.

North

 

Our penchants are often not fully funded either.

 

The way I handle doctorates of all sorts is when they are at work, I call them doctor. If I know them personally away from work, I call them by their first name. Isn't that what everyone does?

 

Mea Culpa...Mea Culpa

North

 

The MD, JD, and PharmD are certainly graduate degrees in the US, regardless of what they were traditionally. Yes, we all do some crazy things because of tradition, but the world changes, the body of knowledge grows, and the professional is still supposed to have all the answers. I have no problem with the fact these degrees are doctorates, that is professional doctorates.

Your Masters degree example is a little out there, because if the body of knowledge you had to learn increased, then............oh yeah, we already have the PhD, don't we?

Your Bachelors degree example does prove something however. A person can prove anything they wish, if they take the premise to an absurd extreme.

Tony

 

I am not sure the body of knowledge required vastly increased just title inflation. Also the MD/DPharm/JD are not really *professional doctorates* but *first professional degrees* as the 90 credit hour MDiv is for ministry.

Just for general interest here is the US Dept of Ed. site with the National Science Foundation degrees equivalent to Ph.D. (includes DBA/EdD/DMin and a host of others).

http://www.ed.gov/NLE/USNEI/us/research-doctorate.html

And the site with the not equivalents (includes MDiv/MD/JD/etc):

http://www.ed.gov/NLE/USNEI/us/prof...al-studies.html

North

 

I think we have come a long way from ear candling and leaches, don't you? As far as the terminology, many schools list these professional degrees (excepting the MDiv) as doctorates. Also, employees with these degrees get paid at the doctoral level, if they are teaching in the same field as their degree, which isn't really a qualification, a PhD in economics with a BA in sociology, would not get doctoral pay if hired to teach sociology.

I never said it was a research doctorate. We were talking about who deserves the title of doctor. As far as tradition goes, maybe somebody can refresh my memory as to the history of the PhD and the MD degree. I can't find any sources, but I remember hearing the MD outdated the PhD. Oh well, no proof, no base to argue on.

Once again, I never compared any of these degrees with a PhD (although I am sure it could be argued which program was more challenging), I simply said I have no problem with said people being called doctors.

Tony

 

The Doctor Pontificates...

A few thoughts on yet another amusing thread . . .

1. Who cares? And why is it that most of those who debate these questions don't have a doctorate in the first place? Not that I'm flaunting it; it's just that when you do have one, you don't have to be concerned with these things unless you have a very small penis. (And I, of course, do not. )

2. A doctorate is a doctorate, whether you like it or not. Whether a J.D. or Pharm.D. (note: not a D.Pharm.), a D.C., or a Psy.D., they are all legitimate doctorates. Except, of course, for the D.Min., which continues to be a joke.

(No, not always, but I decided I had to piss off someone here, so I picked the D.Min. folks.)

3. Who cares what the public thinks? If I am addressed as Doctor in a hospital - and I am on a regular basis - and someone wants to assume that I'm a physician, that's their problem, not mine. And I am very careful in hospitals to ensure that I am not misconstrued as a physician. As are most of the Psy.D., Ph.D., D.P.A., D.P.H., D.P.T., and other non-M.D. or D.O. holders I know.

4. For those of you who have never been through a doctoral program, here's a reality check: Almost every doctoral program will imbue you with the notion that the doctorate which you are pursuing is the grandest, most glorious doctorate in the world. M.D. students are taught that they are at the top of the heap, Ph.D. students are taught they they are at the top of the heap, and so is every other type of doctoral student.

On my very first day in a Union colloquium, we were visited by a department chair from Adelphi University who had earned her Ph.D. from Union. "Welcome to the most exclusive club in the world," she said, "the Ph.D. Club." She then went on to imply that whenever we met another Ph.D., even a stranger in an airport, we would automatically be simpatico with them. Yeah, right.

So how do real doctorate holders do it? Except when decorum dictates otherwise, we call each other by our first names, period. (I don't remember the last time I addressed one of my physicians by title.) The only time I use doctoral titles for others is when I'm standing at a lecture podium (because that is the appropriate decorum) or when counseling a psychiatric patient (because they need to perceive that kind of expertise in a clinical situation). Most of my patients do not know I hold a doctorate, and my ego is not so fragile that I have to shove it down their throats; the only time I refer to it is if they ask (which they occasionally do, at which time I make the scope of my doctorate very clear so it's not misconstrued).

You see, kiddies, being a doctor of anything has nothing to do with a title per se, it has to do with one's level of expertise and wisdom. It has nothing to do with the pedestals we construct for ourselves - those with legitimate credentials who deserve them do not feel the need to construct pedestals in the first place.

As for honorary doctorates, BMAN's response was right on the mark. Young Bobby Schuller (who, for all I know, may have a small penis) may be getting his ego jollies from his bogus title - and it is bogus - but I would hardly use him as an example of someone in a credible profession (professional evangelism? C'mon...). There is far more danger from unknown persons who use bogus titles based on honorary or unaccredited credentials that purport to practice in professional fields such as counseling, ministry, or the allied and alternative health professions. Honorary doctorates? When you hold the real thing, it's a non-issue, and even more of a joke than the worst D.Min.

 

Snip...

< wipes sweat from brow >

 

Re: The Doctor Pontificates...

Steve,

You are a master of non fact based & glorious windy inflammatory hyperbole.

As an aside, I have noticed in a couple of posts you make reference to counseling. Have you given up the wide open road for private practice? Was your masters in counseling & are you now a licensed therapist? You certainly have managed a varied career.

North