St. Thomas University has filled the void created by the demise of the Regent LL.M. program. The program can be completed in one to four years, and requires a one week residency. The balance of the instruction is offered by DL. An MIT (Master of International Taxation) is available for non-lawyers. Cost? Even more than the Regent program! Depending on how long one takes to complete the courrse, it will cost around $24,000. But then, St. Thomas U School of Law is ABA approved! Christopher
I agree that $24k is a bit steep. Part of the problem is that they charge $1500 per term to subscribe you to all the databases (e.g. Lexis, Westlaw, CCH, BNA, et al). However, if you (or anyone else for that matter) happens to stumble across a CHEAP LL.M. in Tax (or DL M.S. in Taxation), please do not hesitate to inform me. I, for one, am beginning to think there's simply no such animal. These schools must hear "Tax" and, apparently, feel they can extract dollars by the fistful. FWIW, Bentley's MST program doesn't cost a whole lot less than the LL.M. program St. Thomas offers (a little over $23k) and that $23k+ covers only tuition (one could safely, I presume, add another grand for materials). The cheapest DL program I've found thus far is offered by Golden Gate (GGU). Even there, we're still certainly NOT talking cheap (circa $1750 per 3-hour course).
I didn't know that Golden Gate offered a D/L LLM at any price. They DO have a JSD program that looks interesting, though not interesting enough to get me off my fat ass. There are a couple of UNACCREDITED D/L tax programs out there; Taft University, SCUPS, Washington School of Law, and my personal favorite, Northwestern Cal U. They are all fairly cheap, some very cheap, but I question their market value. Nosborne, JD
I didn't know that Golden Gate offered a D/L LLM at any price. In fact, you have missed nothing. I apologize if I somehow implied GGU offered an LL.M. via D/L. The closest offering via D/L is a M.S. in Taxation.
I have never had clear in my mind the difference between the Master of Taxation and the LLM in Tax other than the fact that one is for lawyers and the other is for accountants. I have heard that in some schools that offer both degrees lawyers and accountants take the same courses and satisfy the same degree requirements. Nosborne, JD
The two degrees are fungible (well, almost), as far as I'm concerned. I've taken tax courses in both programs and the variations, if any, are virtually indiscernible. I would think, however, that with respect to the general public, a Master of Science degree is easily recognizable while an LL.M. would most likely require an explanation. Most law schools (not St. Thomas, apparently) are fussy and thus will not permit anyone without a J.D. to enroll in their LL.M. in Tax programs. Also, a course in professional responsibility (ethics) is typically required. Clearly, as we have learned, this does nothing to ensure mountains of documents (with potential evidentiary value) do not wind up in the shredder.
Do we know, yet, if St. Thomas will accept a California unaccredited J.D. for admission? As has been discussed here, there are two California unaccredited but bar-approved schools, Saratoga and British-American, which say that they have deals with LL.M. schools that will accept their graduates. But neither one has had a graduate yet, and neither will 'reveal' the names of the LL.M. schools.
From all appearances, the only absolute requirement for admission to the LL.M. Tax program offered by St. Thomas is a bachelor's degree (or foreign equivalent). Consequently, I doubt a non ABA-approved J.D. would be problematic. However, the program will not otherwise qualify anyone completing it to practice law nor, necessarily, take a bar exam. The following was excerpted from the St. Thomas web site: "Generally, LL.M. degree applicants have earned a Juris Doctorate (J.D.), Bachelor of Laws (LL.B), or an equivalent legal degree from a law school in the United States or from an accredited foreign University law faculty. However, because tax is multi-disciplinary between law and accounting, on a selective basis, admission may also be granted to holders of a bachelor’s degree or its foreign equivalent, who have shown an strong commitment to undertake a rigorous legal study. About half of the program's students are either accountants or financial planners." Parenthetically, despite what anyone may have read on any web site, there is no such thing as an ABA-approved LL.M. The ABA does not approve post-J.D. programs. Rather, if it is determined that any post-J.D. program would not have an adverse impact on the school's ability to maintain its accreditation for its J.D. program, the ABA will acquiesce in the school's decision to offer any such post-J.D. (or other) program.
It SEEMS to ME I remember something about LLM programs requiring applicants to hold ABA JD degrees... The ABA used to require its schools to recognize only ABA JD degrees and the federal anti trust people sued? Does that sound right? Anyway, I THOUGHT that the ABA had to drop this requirement for accreditation. Nothing would keep an individual school from CHOOSING to require an ABA JD, however. Nosborne, JD (who hates the ABA)
You are right on point. This was one of the issues raised by the Justice Department in their anti-trust suit a few years ago. It is also likely the reason most regional accrediting bodies no longer mandate any form of accreditation with regard to admissions. When I see the word "Generally" in published admission requirements I usually take it to mean there is a great deal of flexibility.
BTW, the ABA DOES accredit at least one LLM program, despite their web-site insistance that they only "acquiesce" in the establishment of LLM programs. The ABA accredits the U.S. Army JAG law school in Virginia that offers various short courses and an LLM in Military Law. This school doesn't even OFFER a JD or LLB. Nosborne, JD
That may be true but, then again, look at the student body and admission standards. Basically, all of the students are attorneys associated with various branches of the military and have at least five years of experience.
My point was only that, at THIS ABA accredited school, there is no JD program requiring "acquiescense" to offer an LLM. Q.E.D., the ABA DOES accredit at least ONE LLM program, whatever they say. Nosborne, JD
....the ABA DOES accredit at least ONE LLM program, whatever they say. Okay, you are indeed correct. However, the fact that this particular school has no J.D. program and the rather restrictive admissions policy, more likely than not, were substantial factors in the decision to officially approve the program. Regardless, as you stated earlier, and judging by the relatively small number of licensed attorneys enrolled in (or have completed) LL.M. programs throughout the country, I question the market value of these programs (accredited or otherwise, after taking cost into consideration). Anyway, the point is probably moot with respect to everyone but those who need an LL.M. to "cure" a non-accredited J.D. as all save a select few schools appear to be unwilling to accept non-accredited J.D.s into their LL.M. programs.
