Spain rewards Al Qaida: Bomb The Vote! (Neville Chamberlain speaks Spanish)

Knowing from previos postings that you tend to be oversensitive and nationalistic (patriotic you would say it) I begin to regret to have agreed to comment on this topic.

Warren's reason to explain vote shifting are ridiculous and, on top of that, false. Spain has suffered from terrorism during decades from ETA and nobody has ever conceded to it.

Warren is a fascist on his own admittal when he renegades from democracy. To waste an additional minute commenting on the work on someone as uncivilized and radical as this individual is seems to be preposterous, much more in a educational site such as this one, and I won't lend myself to it.

I don't understand what's behind your intent to differentiate people's reaction to terrorism at bot sides of the ocean. Do you want to show that the US is better? Or the other way around? It puzzles me. That romatic literature about bravery and courage you try to show is simply that: literature, fantasy as it doesn't stand a serious, rigorous examination. Americans are brave, Europeans are cowards. Is that what you mean? Look Chris, travelling is more than moving one's arsse from place to place. It is also about trying to integrate, to understand what other people feel and the reasons for it only to finally conclude that all human beings under some superficial differences like culture or race we are all the same. I think you failed to do that while you lived in Germany. You don't understand Europeans at all.

 

Please, get a grip

I more than understand Europeans. I spent years getting to know them and have spent years defending their pacifism to my fellow Americans. I won't even bother to comment on your arsse comment. You should really grow up and stop the name calling.

Warren's reason for the vote shift is right on in many cases. If you don't understand that you are very naive. Yes, others may have felt that the government tried to shift the blame to ETA as a cover-up and voted them out for that reason but others shifted their vote for the reason Warren stated regardless if you like it or not. Homegrown terrorism of the ETA type is a much different animal than the external terrorism behind the Madrid bombing. One can be fled from and the other cannot. Comparing Spanish responses to the two is impractical. I spent 12 years as a military policeman dealing with terrorism in Germany so please do not bother to discuss something about which you know next to nothing.

All of that BS you spout about romantic literature and bravery and comparing peoples reactions came from somebody else, not me. I said we are not mass protestors and we aren't. That trait was commented on as a negative thing and I just pointed out that while we may not protest in a group that we do just fine as individuals. The one being nationalistic here was you when you became affronted by Warrens comments. All I said was that while they may have been a little off target that they by no means espouse fascism. Nowhere in his statements did he advocate a retreat from democracy. More name calling by you.

I also said that the United States is not hated worldwide as you indicated. That is a fact and can easily be verified by the large numbers of people whom die every year trying to enter our country. As for our leadership, European inaction to the events in the Balkans until the USA stepped up is a prime example of everyone waiting around for the USA to do something.

You need to leave the passion out of your debate so you can actually understand what the heck other people are saying.
I have debated with you before and you are for the most part like this in all of them. You very rapidly accuse others of things which you yourself practice.

 

It is amazin

History is filled with examples of what appeasement does. And yet we see this from Spain. It now makes EVERYBODY more vulnerable. I say, let them join the French. The French have a long history dating back to ancient times... the enemies of the King demanded he pay tribute for peace, which he did. Then the enemies ransacked France! This mind-set NEVER learns. Kerry and that ilk think they can "reason" with al-qaida... omg. This is serious stuff now... not just some bozo who lies about his track record.

 

Aside from now, I don't recall having debated with you at all. I too had noticed how easy you jump on other people's neck and then quickly you accuse him of doing the same

For the last time, Warren blames that shifting in the vote intention to cowardness, which is simply false as I have said and shown many times. It is useless to continue on with this.

I think I had enough. I haven't called you any name or anyone else for that matter. "Moving one's arse" (unsure on whether or not the degreinfo software would allow the word a-s-s I mispelt it on purpose) it was intended to say in a more graphical way that there is more to travel than to physically moving our body around; that is, to inmerse in other people's culture and to try to understand other points of views; other perspectives. You obviously didn't, given your unability to understanding something as basic as the reason why others seek peace above any other cosideration.

Your calls to maturity, serenity, etc,.. I think you should apply it to yourself. I am very relaxed and trying to do my best to explain my ideas to a fine audience. And I think I have succeded to get my point accross with everyone but you. Of course, it is my fault.

Take care, Chris.

 

Ahhh

someone who continues to see peoples views as what he says they are instead of what they actually say. Calling someone a fascist is a crime in Germany and you did in fact call someone a fascist. When asked to back that up you fail to do so. I don't see where anyone else got your point that Warren is a fascist. In fact most people on here have disagreed with you. As for moving my ass around you are incorrect. I lived in Germany on the economy for 9 of my 12 years there. Had German in-laws, 2 of which were WW2 vets. Partied with many German friends soldier, civilian and German policeman. And yes, we have debated before. But heck, what do I really care what you think? Debating with you is like fighting an unarmed man. You're right, good bye and I am sure you will sleep well thinking you have shown me the error of your ways. You are right, you have.

 

Familiarity with fascists...

Though we (of the Vietnam era generation) sometimes called our opponents "fascists" back in the day, to the best of my knowledge the USA has never had a fascist government.

However, that is clearly not the case with Spain - apparently our friend (JLV) has this topic very fresh in his mind, or his subconscious.

I stand by my original statement - Spain has joined the ignoble ranks of appeasers throughout history, and I'm sorry and afraid for the Spanish people that they will once again repeat history's old old lessons of what appeasement ultimately gets you.

Good luck Spain. Good bye JLV!

 

Don't regret it. This has been one of the most intelligent and thought-provoking discussions on here in a very, very long time.

That's why I've stayed out of it, for the most part.

 

More words of wisdom from columnist Ann Coulter

After a terrorist attack by al-Qaida that left hundreds of their fellow countrymen dead, Spanish voters immediately voted to give the terrorists what they want – a socialist government that opposes America's war on terrorism. Al-Qaida has changed a government.

Until the bombings last week, the center-right Popular Party of outgoing Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar had been sailing to victory. But then the al-Qaida bombs went off and Spaniards turned out in droves to vote against the government that had been a staunch Bush ally in the war on terrorism. (I guess it's OK for a Spanish socialist to "politicize" a terrorist attack just to get elected.)

In a videotaped message, the al-Qaida "military commander" for Europe claimed credit for the bombings, saying that the terrorist attack was meant to punish Spain for supporting the war in Iraq. The message came as a total shock to liberals who have been furiously insisting that Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with al-Qaida.

Apparently al-Qaida didn't think so. After the Madrid bombings, it looks like liberals and terrorists will have to powwow on whether there was an Iraq /al-Qaida link. Two hundred dead Spaniards say there was.

The New York Times called the Spanish election "an exercise in healthy democracy." And an ATM withdrawal with a gun to your head is a "routine banking transaction." Instead of vowing to fight the people who killed their fellow citizens, the Spanish decided to vote with al-Qaida on the war. A murdering terrorist organization said, "Jump!" and an entire country answered, "How high?"

One Spaniard who decided to switch his vote in reaction to the bombings told the Times: "Maybe the Socialists will get our troops out of Iraq and al-Qaida will forget about Spain so we will be less frightened." That's the fighting spirit! If the violent Basque separatist group only killed more people, Spain would surely give them what they want, too.

After his stunning upset victory, Socialist Party leader Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero vowed to withdraw Spanish troops from Iraq if the United States does not turn over Iraq to the United Nations. He also vowed that all of Spain's remaining trains will run on time.

Zapatero said the war with Iraq had "only caused violence" and "there were no reasons for it." One reason for the war, which would seem to be a sufficient reason for a more manly country, is that the people who just slaughtered 200 Spaniards didn't like it.

But, like the Democrats, the Spanish hate George Bush more than they hate the terrorists. Zapatero said the war in Iraq was based on "lies" and called on President Bush and Tony Blair to "do some reflection and self-criticism." So don't think of the Spanish election as a setback for freedom – think of it as a preview of life under President John Kerry!

What kind of lunatic would blame Bush for 200 Spaniards killed by al-Qaida bombs? Oh wait – Howard Dean just did. Summarizing the views of socialists everywhere, Dean said: "The president was the one who dragged our troops to Iraq, which apparently has been a factor in the death of 200 Spaniards over the weekend."

Yes, with 1,700 dead or injured Spaniards, George Bush certainly has some explaining to do. What have the terrorists ever done besides kill and maim thousands of innocent civilians? Bush isn't fully funding "No Child Left Behind," for God's sake!

Before he was put into office because he supported policies favored by al-Qaida terrorists, appeasement candidate Zapatero said: "I want Kerry to win." Kerry is also supported by North Korean dictator Kim Jong Il, who broadcasts Kerry speeches over Radio Pyongyang with favorable commentary.

So now Kerry really does have two foreign leaders on record supporting him: a Socialist terrorist-appeaser and a Marxist mass murderer who dresses like Bea Arthur.

Zapatero predicted that his own victory would help the anti-war party "in the duel between Bush and Kerry." Would you mind repeating that, sir? I was distracted by that large white flag you're waving.

However Spain's election affects Americans, we can be sure that Spain's surrender to terrorism hasn't been lost on the terrorists. It's difficult to imagine the American people responding to a new terrorist attack by deciding to placate the terrorists, as the Spanish did. A mollusk wouldn't react that way to an attack. Only a liberal could be so perverse.

No matter how many of our European allies may surrender to the terrorists, America will never be alone. This is a country founded in a covenant with God by people who had to flee Europe to do it.

Sailing to the New World in 1630 on the ship Arabella, the Puritans' leader and governor, John Winthrop, said Americans were entering into a covenant with God to create a "city upon a hill." We would be judged by all the world if we ever broke that covenant. But if we walked with God, "We shall find that the God of Israel is among us, when 10 of us shall be able to resist a thousand of our enemies." He has intervened in our affairs before, such as in 1776, 1861 and 1980.

With the Spanish election, we are witnessing a capitulation to savagery that makes full-scale war inevitable. The Democratic candidate wants to represent godless Europeans. The Republican candidate wants to represent Americans. As Winthrop said: "The eyes of all people are upon us."

 

How exactly did God intervene in 1980?

 

Maybe she is referring to ...

the election of Reagan during the hostage crisis in Iran? Carter was a good man but what was needed at that time was a strong leader and he was to cerebral for that.

 

Re: Maybe she is referring to ...

A number of political historians credit stolen debate notes from the Carter camp by the Reagan camp as partial reasons Reagan won as well as the entry of John Anderson in the race.

I voted for Anderson and had he not been in the race I would have voted for Carter, as I did in '76.

 

Eppure si muove......

Chris,

You are inapt for a debate. You just don’t fit in an agora where different positions and ideas are exchanged. I hope everyone reads how irrational your attitude has been.


Jimmy

Well, Jimmy, I thought views from the other side of the pond would be welcome. Unfortunately, not everyone is intelligent enough to accept and encourage diversity. They prefer uniformity. How easy is to recognize their type. Nevertheless, I thank you for your fair stance.



Reginstein,

Warren is a fascist because he acknowledges it himself, and on top of that a ignorant as repeteadly shown. You seem to be a very skilled debater as well. Yes, god bless you, and good bye to you too.

 

JLV....

I don't know, I have years of grades and reviews that laud my verbal and written communications skills so I'll pretty much disregard your petulent opinion. My wife would laugh, she accuses me of being rational to the point of the ridiculous. You lost, your point was based on naught but emotion. Keep the insults, their worth is based on the value I place on those making them. In your case, I place no value at all. As we say in the USA, hit the road running.

Jimmy,

Without a doubt Carter lost because of the hostage crisis and inflation. I, for one, do not think that it was fair to blame it all on him but fairness is not a strong point in politics. He has been a very effective ex-president except for his efforts in North Korea. That was more because he failed to understand the duplicity of Kim 2. That failure displayed his inate trust in the honesty of another, however, that was a misplaced belief with Kim.

 

You keep on saying you disregard my opinion, but act otherwise.

Your writing and expression skills are here for everyone to see. No need for grades.

Now you're judge and part. You see? You just don't know better.

I ain't going anywhere.

 

Yawn,....

I'm done. As you said, my opinions, etc. are here for everyone to evaluate. We'll let them judge. Go ahead, I'll give you the last word.

 

Just in case there is some vestige of intelligence left here, I would like to add something else.

Warren’s analysis is not only biased and erroneous; it is, using his own terms, more of a sermon than a rigorous examination of current affairs in Spain and Europe. Some Spaniards – that’s what he should have said – have voted with fear; others have voted for PSOE because of the upsetting events previous to the election, what many perceived to be lies and manipulation (whether unfoundedly or not) from the government. And even a third group did it because they are lifetime socialist and they have the right to do it. Period.

Whether Spaniards as a whole were wrong or not (which is something that remains to be seen), that doesn’t empower this Warren to cast collective insults. It just reveals pure and hard fascism; that is among other things, the inability to accept a majority’s will when it doesn’t suit one’s interests. Few readers could doubt it anyway after reading about his disdain for democracy (screw democracy!)…..

One can resort to dim, pedantic, and clumsy attempts to discredit my opinion by trying to discredit me at the personal level, the unforgivable sin in debating. Nevertheless any avid, experienced reader can understand what those symptoms unequivocally indicate, can’t he? This is the type of intransigence that inevitably prevents any sort of dialogue from taking place. Very Osama bin Laden like. This is definitely my last attempt to engage in cordial, challenging discussion of world affairs. Anyone cares? Or was all in vain?

 

We have this saying...

We have this saying here in America, when debate is going at cross purposes, when one accuses another of the very things that one engages in.... It is a nice little word called "WHATEVER!"

I'll keep debatin' you though anyway - I sort of like poking at Spanish guys who think they are smarter than everyone else!

 

Let's lighten things up a bit...

Those of you interested in politics might find this web site interesting....

Talking Presidents


Purchase your very own George W. Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, Bill Clinton, and other action figures that talk! Sample quotes are found on the web site.

 

Re: Let's lighten things up a bit...

This is good for laughs also

http://www.dancingbush.com

And for those who enjoy the dregs of conversation

http://www.stupid.com/stat/SIGM.html

 

Re: Re: Let's lighten things up a bit...

Jimmy,
These are both precious, precious websites! Thanks. I got inspiration from the talking doll one to answer a post about Clinton's intelligence in another thread.

You had mentioned more than once that we no doubt have common ground - I believe that too, but most certainly we do regarding an irreverent sense of humor!

Have a good day!
- Carl