We have been discussing PsyD programs. I just saw this one that is both in person and online. It is non licensure track. Southern California Seminary is ATS and TRACS accredited. Dr. David Jeremiah is Chancellor. There are two tuition rates listed so I am assuming it is the one for the non licensure PsyD. It is 650 per unit I believe (approx $39,000). Seems a little steep. Probably less expensive for the non licensure Cumberlands PhD in Psychology. https://www.socalsem.edu/doctor-of-psychology/
Interesting statistics. A average cost of the program in the two years measured was between $53,000 (2022) and $62,000 (2021). Average student loans debt of $55,000 (2022). For a non APA and institutionally accredited by a non regional accreditor PsyD. Not sure about the value. Again, Cumberlands would seem to be less expensive and have more utility.
University of the Cumberlands has an online PhD in psychology? I know they have a concentration, which is fine if someone just wants 18 credits to teach. One thing I keep seeing in rules for psychology boards is that the program must be in psychology or psychological sciences, led by a psychologist, and taught out of a psychology department. Edit: I don't see the psychology concentration anymore.
Could have gone away. I think it required on campus time as well. And from what I recall when I looked at it it did not appear to be gauged to practice. Of course one of the problems with a program like that in terms of research is that it may not be geared well to actual research. When you think research you think on campus within a setting working with tenured faculty doing psychological research. I am not sure that sort of thing lends itself to online studies. Which brings up another thing. We have the doctorates geared to research where people work alongside faculty to do actual research. Then in the United States we seem to have a lot of programs where it is simply learning about a subject and writing a dissertation which frankly may or may not really contribute to new understanding of a topic. We crank out people with doctorates in leadership such as some recent examples but do they really understand leadership? They consider themselves subject matter experts because they have a PhD. But what they have generally done is taken canned lectures and then worked on a dissertation. Steve Levicoff used to do that all the time. It was somewhat tongue in cheek but more like a humble brag. I have a Regionally accredited PhD and therefore am a font of knowledge and expertise.
There are some schools that handle this sort of issue well. When you apply for the online program, you have to identify a faculty advisor who shares your research interests. I'm assuming you will work closely with that advisor on research projects, including a required publication. The faculty members for Colorado State University's online PhD in Systems Engineering will note on the faculty page whether they're accepting more doctoral students to work under them. One of the most intriguing online programs I've seen is the PhD in experimental psychology. Experimental, cognitive, and neuropsychology would be the three sub-fields I'd expect to be the most difficult to research at a distance. Other fields can use surveys, observations, and secondary data. https://www.uidaho.edu/degree-finder/psychology/phd-psychology-experimental I blame the governing boards for not hiring people with the appropriate experience or for not firing administrators fast enough when they prove to be incompetent or corrupt. I have an admitted bias against leadership degrees. I think leadership courses can be valuable for foundational knowledge of theories and research findings, but a whole degree in leadership can't turn someone into a leader. Experience and personality factor into leadership success.
Wait a minute? Are you saying that he might have stopped doing that? If so, that might be enough for me to unblock him. On second thought....I think I'll just stay the course.
Leadership degrees really seem to have become a check the box PhD for people wanting to have a PhD and are in (or want to be in) management. I imagine they are also an attempt at a cash cow for schools. Learning about leadership can definitely be helpful and often seems most effective in continuing education (in person) and effective mentoring.
Well, I haven't heard from him since the Moderators performed an extraordinary rendition and disappeared him. Not sure if he was waterboarded on the way out but still out.
I see the advent of leadership degrees as part of the evolution of non-quantitative business degrees. First, came the management degrees as a less quantitative alternative to the MBA. But, management degrees still closely resemble MBA curriculum. Then, came the leadership degrees with no quantitative requirements. There was definitely a market for them because I remember hearing people say that they didn't want to take finance, economics, or accounting. They just wanted to learn how to lead. In my opinion, you can't properly lead if you don't understand financials. You don't need to be an expert, but you should know enough to recognize when something doesn't look right or to know how to course correct when your organization is losing money.
The Organizational Leadership program that I'm taking at Hopkins has an elective for financials. I don't plan on taking it, but it's there. I'm a VP in tech, leading teams. I know how to manage a department budget through experience.
Yes indeed. If you don't have the requisite experience, then certainly a course or two in finance and accounting can definitely help. In my case, I've run small to medium sized corporations for over 40 years, working with CPA's, accountants, et al. Back in the day I took an accounting course when I first majored in business, and it was helpful to a point. The point being that if you don't continue on that trajectory the knowledge will eventually fade. I was fortunate that I've been able to apply it and what I've learned by experience over the years, even though I'm more of an entrepreneur vs. manager now. And if one of my companies loses money, I can usually catch on quickly since I keep a close eye on financial reports. But even under watchful eyes, in the past a trusted partner stole tens of thousands from me and my other partners. That was enough to tighten up our accounting systems to make sure that never happened again. Going forward, checks required dual signatures, monies received daily were double checked, etc. So sometimes it's the internal losses that can kill a business. And it's also good to at least have a cursory understanding of what the professionals (i.e. CPA, Attorney, et al) should be doing for you too.
One thing I noticed at SDN was the resentment of some traditional APA graduates toward CalSouthern. They noted the amount of work they put in and one said 60 or 70 hour weeks during residency (working on a dissertation and so on). A couple noted how critical the residency was to learning and development. It bothered them that people could enroll for an online PsyD and whip out the degree while working full-time. They saw that as a lack of rigor and worried about the effectiveness. So, it seems you battle APA preference issues, skepticism, and resentment. I wonder if Oceania SM deals with similar issues?
At the end of the day, CalSouthern graduates still have to pass the licensing exam and complete thousands of supervision hours. Working full-time and completing a doctorate requires a lot of weekly hours, but I don't believe that burnout, whether online or on ground, does anything to make one a more competent psychologist.
I don't think they are saying the burnout does it rather the amount of time and rigor devoted to the subject coupled with intensive accredited internships.
The accredited internships are a plus if the graduate can land them. Some graduates of APA-accredited programs have to settle for unaccredited internships due to limited spots.
@sanantone I think for some people this path makes sense. You just have to be proactive in networking and planning to increase your chances for success. But in the end due to cost and convenience for some people this is a shot at reaching a goal just as an unaccredited law School is an opportunity for some people to practice law not just in California but in federal courts and agencies across the country. It may be an uphill battle but for those not faint of heart and willing to persevere it can work.
The next step for me is a Chief Customer Officer role, and I think it gives me an advantage. Leading teams is what I do; the extra things in an MBA (accounting, etc.) aren't really relevant to my current or future role. Now, if I wanted to be a CEO (I don't) then an MBA would probably be better. I also want to go on to get a PhD in Organizational Leadership -- that's just for myself, not for a career goal.
