Second Bachelors

Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by Adam311, Jun 15, 2015.

  1. Adam311

    Adam311 Member

    Hi all,

    I have a Bachelors in Applied Science and a MBA. I need a Bachelors in Business just to fullfill many job requriements. I do not want a second Masters. I just want a fast second bachelors with the least minimum amount of credits to take. TESC is the lowest I have found. They only require 24 credits for obtaining a second bachelors. Is there any other university that offers less then 24 hours to obtain a second bachelors degree?

  2. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    Excelsior is also 24 credits. Both are likely safe bets.

    That said, as an HR guy, I cannot possibly fathom an employer hiring for a position which requires a B.S.B.A., seeing that you have an MBA and a non-business undergrad, and passing you over for someone with a business undergrad degree. I'm not going to say that some silly screening software might not cause you problems somewhere down the line but even an HR intern (the person we usually force to screen applications) should have more sense than that.

    And last year's HR intern was fired for watching (and listening, very loudly, to) the most violent porn the internet had to offer on a work computer in the middle of the afternoon smack dab in the center of a cubicle farm. So I'm not really sold on the judgment skills of interns these days.

    But, if you're determined to go this route, may I recommend a second bachelors in an area of business perhaps not covered by your MBA?

    For example, if your MBA has a concentration in say, accounting, consider getting the second B.S. in Finance. Or if you have an MBA with a concentration is say, HR, maybe get the second B.S. in Operations (an option at Excelsior).

    Excelsior has a few interesting concentrations for the B.S. in Business:

    • Accounting
    • Finance
    • Global Business
    • Management of Human Resources
    • Operations Management
    • Risk Management
    • Marketing
    • Information Systems

    So, for me, the Risk Management one might be tempting because of my unique situation. If I were to get promoted it would be very likely that I would also take over the Risk Management department. Even if I didn't get the job RM and HR are combined in a number of companies (other common combinations include RM/Finance, RM/Legal, RM/Operations, RM/EHS and various other incarnations).

    So it would complement my resume rather well.

    Maybe you already considered everything I'm saying. That's fine too. I just felt like I should say something.
  3. Adam311

    Adam311 Member

    Newhaus, this is great information that I have never thought of before. I will Def finely think about a different area of concentration to expand my opportunities

    Do you or anyone else know of any universities that have a zero minimum or less then 24 credits for a second bachelors?
  4. rebel100

    rebel100 New Member

    What jobs are you looking at that require this? Like Neuhaus I don't get this one.

    What state are you in? Many schools offer second degrees and 24-30 hours is probably about the average of additional work needed unless your looking at a STEM field, which you are not. Many might even exclude you since you already have the MBA.

    Thomas Edison would probably be among the easier schools to accomplish this.
  5. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    I don't. And honestly, if I found one, I would be incredibly wary.

    TESC and Excelsior have some of the most liberal credit transfer policies out there. But I don't think any school wants to get into the business of just reissuing degrees. And that's exactly what you would get. You wouldn't be able to get a second bachelors in a new field because, if all of the credits from your first bachelors transferred to a second bachelors, you wouldn't have credits in anything else.

    I have a B.S.B.A. from Colorado Technical University. So, let's say I started to feel very self-conscious about my degree being from a "for-profit" school and wanted a second BA to carry me through. If I went to TESC, and they accepted all of my first B.S. toward a second B.S., how could I get anything other than a new B.S.B.A.?

    I would rather apply all of my other courses and try for the B.S. in Organizational Development (for an HR professional, that's a fairly solid degree to have on hand).

    If you're hoping to limit time and expense, I would probably recommend Penn Foster. Though NA, their courses are ACE recommended (currently until 9/30/15, not sure what their intentions are after that date if they are going to renew or just drop the ACE thing altogether). They also accept transfer credits. So, two possibilities.

    1. Earn a self-paced associates degree. That would spiff up your resume like this:

    B.S. Applied Science
    A.A.S. Business Administration

    2. The ACE recommended credits can be flipped to TESC or Excelsior

    3. By transferring credits from your bachelors you should be able to avoid the non-business coursework (English comp, intro to whatever etc.). So it should be a pretty swift progression toward items 1 & 2.

    Alternatively, Patten University is pretty cheap and self-paced and you can bank a bunch of business courses that way to earn either a B.S.B.A. or flip the credits to TESC and Excelsior. Patten is RA so you shouldn't have any transfer issues.

    Last option is to drop the idea because your MBA should qualify you for any job that a B.S.B.A. would qualify you for. In which case you can focus your attention on certifications, designations or specialized training to make you more competitive. SQL? Man, HR guys are hot for SQL skills these days. Oooh! And PMPs. We love us some PMP.
  6. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Excelsior is switching to a 15-week, 6-credit capstone requirement for its BSBA. That course, alone, will cost almost $3,000. This will be on top of the over $1,000 enrollment fee for Excelsior's multi-source tuition plan. You can currently test out of the capstone at TESC for $111 with a TECEP or transfer the course from Penn Foster for $237. If you're comfortable with testing, CLEP, DSST, TECEP, and Uexcel should cost between $100-150 each. If you take eight TECEPs for TESC's degree for a total of $888, you won't have to pay the over $3,000 enrollment fee. I don't think there is an accredited college out there that can beat the cost and speed of TESC for a second bachelor's. Also, TESC might give you credit for courses taken for your MBA. Even though I won't be using them, TESC gave me criminal justice and homeland security credits for my master's degree.

    Edit: TESC offers several concentrations for its BSBA similar to Excelsior.

    Computer Information Systems
    Operations Management
    General Management
    Hospital Healthcare Administration
    Human Resources/Organizational Management
    International Business
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2015
  7. Adam311

    Adam311 Member

    Sanantone: this is great info thanks! I'm intrested in the TESC BSBA in accounting. So for a second bachelor's they require a minimum of 24 hours. So for this program I'm intrested in can be completed with 8 TECEP exams from TESC? And these will count toward the degree?
  8. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    You need to look at the requirements for the BSBA in accounting:

    Subject Category Credits
    I. General Education Requirements 60
    A. Intellectual and Practical Skills 15
    English Composition I (ENC-101)
    English Composition II (ENC-102)
    College Algebra or Quantitative Analysis
    Managerial Communication
    Electives in Intellectual and Practical Skills
    B. Personal and Social Responsibility 9
    Diversity/Global Literacy
    Responsible Ethical Leadership
    Ethics or Diversity Elective
    C. Human Cultures and the Physical and Natural World 18
    Macroeconomics (ECO-111)
    Microeconomics (ECO-112)
    Statistics (STA-201)
    Humanities, Social Science, Natural Science or Interdisciplinary Electives
    D. General Education Electives 18
    II. Professional Business Requirements 54
    A. Business Core 27
    Business Law
    Computer Concepts and Applications/Introduction to Computers/CIS
    Principles of Financial Accounting
    Principles of Managerial Accounting
    Principles of Finance
    Introduction to Marketing
    Business in Society or International Management
    Strategic Management
    Principles of Management
    B. Area of Study: Accounting 18
    Required Subjects
    Intermediate Accounting I
    Intermediate Accounting II
    Recommended Subjects
    Federal Income Taxation I
    Federal Income Taxation II OR Tax Accounting II
    Advanced Financial Accounting
    Advanced Managerial Accounting
    Accounting Information Systems
    Analysis of Financial Statements
    Cost Accounting
    Fund, Government OR Public Accounting
    C. Business Electives 9
    III. Free Electives 6
    Total 120

    So, the first thing you need to do is figure out what you have and what you need. You can't just take 8 random courses and call it a day. I have a BSBA but I never took Intermediate Accounting (because my degree isn't in accounting this wasn't required). Nor have I taken English Comp II.

    This is a list of the TCEP exams offered. It doesn't appear that they offer accounting subjects at all. So you can use TCEP for some of your electives or to fill in the gaps on general education (i.e. if you don't have something like English Comp II) but ultimately you're going to need accounting credits for a degree in accounting.

    This is where I was suggesting the Penn Foster accounting courses. If you can skip all of the GenEd in the program you can get right into Accounting courses. Knock out a handful of those, plus any GenEd you might be missing and you're on track.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 16, 2015
  9. Adam311

    Adam311 Member

    Ok I am a little confused. I know TESC and Excelsior require and additional 24 hours for a second Bachelors but do these credits have to be taken at these universities or can I take them at CLEP/Penn Foster/Straighterline/U EXCEL and then transfer them towards the 24 hours needed at Excelsior and TESC? And if they accept them do they take them over 100% or just partialy?

    Thanks for all the help and advice this is great information!
  10. rebel100

    rebel100 New Member

    You can typically transfer in all but the capstone (TESC sometimes allows this as transfer too). All of the credits will have to be earned after your last degree...not sure how the MBA affects it.
  11. novadar

    novadar Member

    Wow, this makes absolutely no sense at all. Someone at your company is either a complete idiot or loves to play asinine games. Seriously you have an MBA. To me this would be a clear sign to look for another opportunity. If their policy on educational qualifications is this ridiculous, I can only imagine their expense, time-off, and other policies. For the VAST majority of jobs 'what' a degree is in makes very little difference on one's ability to perform the duties of a specific job. Only those fields that have regulatory or legal requirements fall into this "you need a specific" degree trap, in my humble opinion.

    Good luck.
  12. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    I think this is even more the case in this instance because the op has an MBA. I can not imagine how they would conclude that getting a Bachelors in Business after the MBA would somehow make them a better employee. In my view it would be a waste of time and money.
  13. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    I've only ever dealt with TESC on a theoretical level.

    How exactly do you test out of or transfer the capstone?
  14. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    This is only possible with TESC's BSBA programs. The capstone is Strategic Management/Business Policy. You can either test out of it with the Strategic Management TECEP (someone recently found out that you can use the Business Policy CBE at CSU Global) or transfer in Strategic Business Management from Penn Foster. Actually, you can take a similar course just about anywhere and transfer it in.

    Like everyone else, I think it would be strange for an employer not to accept an MBA in lieu of a bachelor's in business. But, if you still want to go that route, I made a test out plan for TESC's BSBA in Accounting.

    Sanantone's BSBA in Accounting - Degree Forum Wiki
    Sanantone's General Education Options - Degree Forum Wiki
    Free Sources of Credit - Degree Forum Wiki
  15. Adam311

    Adam311 Member

    Sanatone, this is great info! Exactly what I need. Have you taken any business teceps? I've only taken straighterline. I did no like them because I felt the accounting final didn't follow the material. And I didn't like the monthly fee of 100.
  16. novadar

    novadar Member

    If you are pursuing this degree to satisfy your current employer's requirements I suggest that you file a grievance or appeal to the HR Executive. It makes NO SENSE that you would need to show evidence of a Bachelor's degree in Business when you have a Master of Business Administration degree. None. Nada. Zen-zen.

    If you are pursuing this degree because YOU personally have seen job openings that state something the effect of "Bachelors Degree in Business Required", then you are misguided. I cannot visualize a single employer that would not say an MBA is an acceptable substitute for a Bachelors Degree in Business.

    My suspicion is that you are way over thinking things. I cannot see any reason to pursue or any benefit you will gain from a Second Bachelors Degree in a Subject that you already hold a Masters degree. I suspect as well that Excelsior, and other schools, may not even allow you to pursue it. I toyed briefly with the idea of a Second Bachelors in IT since my first degree is a BA in History. I have an MPA (and now a PhD) and the folks at Excelsior wanted to make absolutely certain the new Bachelors was in a different discipline. Charter Oak said that the Provost would have to approve enrollment in a Second Bachelors since I already had a Masters. TESC encouraged me to pursue a Masters in IT or IS. Not sure if you have encountered those types of issues yet but don't stories like that tell you something? You really have no good reason to "go backwards".
  17. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    If you do this then make sure you have your resume updated and at least two interviews at new companies lined up. Because you're gonna need them.

    As an HR professional it is my job to protect your rights insofar as the protection of your rights serves company interests. It's sad but true. I bring claims of workplace harassment to a swift and just conclusion because hostile work environments are less productive and can create legal liabilities for our company. HR people are more than happy to help. But ultimately we are only empowered to help people up to a certain limit. We get paid to hire, fire, administer benefits and resolve workplace disputes. But those functions are usually (that is to say, at many companies) designed primarily to keep the workforce from unionizing and to keep the company from getting sued. Some places are better than others. But there is a bottom line to the HR function which means there are limits to what we can do in a situation like this.

    If you go to HR and whine about how your boss is setting an unreasonable requirement for promotion then the only thing I can do is first meet privately with your boss to see what his/her take on the situation is. Then I can put both of you together in a room and try to facilitate a resolution. If your boss is a mature and secure individual then this should work. If your boss is a sophomoric idiot then he/she will get mad that you went to HR and begin working on ways to make your life suck without rising to the level of an actionable HR or EEOC complaint. One of the hardest things for us to take action on is what we call "death by a thousand paper cuts." Here your boss does little things to annoy the crap out of you until you're just fed up enough to quit (or they can ding you enough times to fire you). It isn't pretty. And I've seen it happen with documented proof against a high level manager who is protected by senior leadership. Guess what? There's nothing I can do Ina situation like that.

    Most people react very poorly to having issues brought to HR. If your immediate supervisor is holding your career back because of a nonsensical requirement it is doubtful they have the emotional maturity (or the desire) to handle HR intervention in a productive manner. If your boss is purposely holding you back then it may be time to move on. In which case the HR intervention will only kill your shot at using your boss as a reference (if that's even possible).

    Know what HR is capable of but recognize what HR is not capable of as well. Very often we cannot force a sucky manager to stop sucking. And some managers have protectors who can neuter our limited powers to keep them safe no matter what stupid/rude/illegal thing they do. But if you launch an HR comp,ain't against your boss my suggestion from personal experience is that you need to be prepared to move on.
  18. Adam311

    Adam311 Member

    I am in Oklahoma and work in the petroleum accounting industry. The reason for my second Bachelors would be to satisfy the accounting course requirements my employer and other employers want for these petroleum accounting roles. Instead of just taking a couple accounting courses to meet their requirements I thought about just taking a few more and obtaining my BBA in accounting since this will look good for my resume. And BBA in Accounting and MBAs are both very popular in my field. So the way I look at it is take a few courses on CLEP/Straighterline/TECEP and obtain a BBA in Accounting.
  19. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    Sounds reasonable to me.

    One thing you might consider also would be an undergraduate certificate.

    This one at SNHU requires 6 courses.

    This one at Northeastern is 24 credits.

    The advantage is thus:

    1. You'll met your employer's requirements
    2. You'll get something snazzy to hang on your wall just for the accounting requirements (potentially from a fairly prestigious school).
    3. You'll have the freedom to then either pursue the second B.S. or not. You may find that, in addition to the 8 courses in accounting, you also need a few GenEd courses. You can leisurely take your time in doing that. Or skip it. It would be up to you.

    Personally, I love certificates. I look at them like a great way to add a major or minor after graduation. Oh, you have an MBA in General Business? Bam, grad cert in accounting. Got a B.A. in Liberal Studies? Bam, undergrat cert in HR Management.

    But you'll also have the credits available to transfer to TESC, if you so choose, to earn that second bachelors.
  20. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    I've taken and passed Federal Income Taxation. It's open book, but the other business TECEPs aren't. I plan on taking Strategic Management and the accounting TECEPs later. TESC does offer an undergraduate certificate in accounting, but if you want name recognition, I recommend Louisiana State University because tuition is reasonable.

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