Russian MBA and DBA. Total Tuition Below 10k

Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by asianphd, Apr 22, 2020.

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  1. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    I tried to access the site for their Russian partner, St. Petersburgh University of Management and Law. Site is offline; looks like it was accredited, but lost it and closed back in 2016.

    What is the attraction of Russian MBA? It's not like the country is on the bleeding edge of business or something. And I think the status of these diplomas is too confusing even in Russia, even from better schools. It's not exactly all fake, but the value of it is unclear.
     
  2. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Russian degrees are valuable at least in some fields like Engineering and Science. However, if my name is John Smith and come with an MBA from Russia, most likely your CV would look more odd than real and will not get a second look.

    People here are hunting for cheap degrees and get excited because they find some cheap degrees from Russia, Nicaragua, etc. The problem is the usability of these degrees. Most people when they hire someone, they expect a regular education from a local school or if foreign from a place that can be justified (e.g. Canada, Australia, UK) mainly because a particular school has a strong program with some reputation or some might argue distance because the program comes from a reputable school. However, if I have my degree from a local school in Canada (e.g. University of Toronto) and then top it up with a PhD from a school in Nicaragua, this CV is not going to sell so much because ,most people will not take my PhD so seriously as people will wonder why I get a PhD from Nicaragua, Russia or a private obscure school in Mexico (e.g. Azteca) on top of my UoT degree.

    However, lets say that I only have a BS from UoT and really want to teach finance at a local college or University. The PhD from the obscure but accredited school becomes an asset because without it, I cannot just get the teaching gig. The other value could be getting a pay raise, if I am already a high school or CC teacher at a local school, I can come with my DBA, PhD from Russia, Nicaragua, etc and get the few extra thousand dollars more because of this degree, the 10K will pay off in few years and nobody in my school needs to know that my PhD is from Nicaragua or Russia.

    Here in Canada, I see quite a few people that get PhDs from obscure schools mainly to be able to put a PhD in a business card, many of these are self employed consultants, psychotherapists, etc. In general, you only need a MS to be able to get a psychotherapist license but my PhD from Nicaragua can give me the right to put a PhD in my business card to boost my profile. No customer is going to care or even ask where I went to school but the PhD is legit. Some people for example find it expensive to get a CPA, pay membership due, etc, just to be able to put CPA in a business card so it might be cheaper and more impressive to put in your business card PhD (Accounting) or DBA(Accounting), it wont matter if it is from Russia or Nicaragua, nobody can accuse you from fraud as you hold a recognized degree.

    Education is always welcome for professional development but maybe is just cheaper and more effective to get a local qualification at a local continuing education school rather than an impressive title such as PhD from a school that will just make your CV more questionable.
     
    engadnan likes this.
  3. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    IINB deal above, in Russian, advertises double degrees with Swiss and Indian schools. It really looks like they are not 100% sold on the value of their own approvals.
    I am not exactly sure what is the deal with these diplomas is in Russia. For the DBA, the school in the initial post has the whole video on how it is not the same as the usual Kandidat degree, but "just as good" and "aimed at practitioners". Smells like bull Shinto, if I could borrow a phrase.
    I lurk on a Russian web board catering to PhD degree seekers, to see what they do for things like publishing opportunities. "DBA" degrees do not come up, even though a lot of people are in "economics" area degree programs (this includes business disciplines). So to the academia world, this whole world of MBA and DBA studies is practically invisible. Cheating and fraud gets discussed, though. In Russia, every person of any status is a PhD (official one); I wonder what they paid. There are services that would write the whole thing for you and even facilitate a defense (dispatch bribes to right people). The only risk is many years after that fine people from Dissernet (a group of concerned scientists) will find huge chunks of plagiarism in your work. They did hordes of people from Russian Parliament; it's hilarious. Bottom line, if you want a degree from Russia, don't be cheap and buy an original article!
     
  4. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Well, imagine if the foreign school is relying on a local school for academic integrity. The folks from Nicaragua grant a PhD to graduates from a private school in Russia, India, etc. There is a lot of fraud already with British schools that monitor and control local partners with audits, visits, etc, you can imagine the fraud that happens with a school in South America that has no resources for audits, local visits, etc. For this reason, the distance degrees from these schools are not recognized in Germany, there is too much risk of academic fraud and this is a fair assessment. The German authorities recognize a degree from UCN if the individual did it in Nicaragua through the traditional route but not distance where the risk of fraud is huge.

    UCN, Azteca, etc are not doing nothing different than British schools are doing already but they need to probe themselves as being reliable to monitor foreign partners.

    Australian schools have been also in several scandals for similar reasons, many conduct foreign activities in India, Malaysia etc and there are reports of abuse from local partners. In theory, the idea of outsourcing education to a local partner makes sense from the cost point of view but the local partner seems to be motivated by greediness so it is less likely to care about academic integrity as for them is quick cash and dont care about protecting the reputation of the school.
     
  5. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Education is business, coursera partners with big name schools in the US to grant degrees. I see nothing wrong with Russian, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, etc schools doing the same as Americans, British, Australians, etc.
    A DBA from a Russian school might have little use in the US or Canada but it might mean a lot to a person in India that is looking for a pay increase at some Indian University.
    One might argue that some Russian Universities are not as credible but it is all relative, Russian schools might be more credible than low ranked Indian Schools, Nicaraguan Universities might have more credibility that low ranked schools in Zambia and so on.
    Education is an industry and everyone should be allowed to do as they wish as long as it is ethical.
     
  6. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    The school has a license to conduct educational programs from local - city min - department of education but unaccredited in the Russian Federation.
    They only list the license on their web site.
    In some advertisements, they mention professional accreditation from outside Russia.
     
  7. engadnan

    engadnan Member

    I believe that they issue credentials from St Petersburg Institute of Management and Law (their Russian counterpart) which is still at least listed on UNESCO's IAU's WHED Database. However, the website of St Petersburg Institute of Management and Law doesn't respond either.
     
  8. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    https://www.emasedu.com/accreditation-and-ranking?source=emas&media=website&campaign=emas

    Critics and people who know the Russian system of education stated that the above statement is misleading it is not accreditation is simply a license issued by the ministry of education of the city of Nizhniy Novgorod area to conduct complementary professional education.
    This has value but falls short of accreditation. Not allowing the school to award state format degrees. Only accredited schools can award national standard diplomas.
     
  9. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    The web site for that school is dead. It shows up in many directories, and there was a comment from someone in one of the listings saying that the school lost accreditation and closed in 2016.
    As far as I understand, "MBA" and "DBA" are not regulated degree titles in Russia beyond having a "license", which is short of accreditation. Russian site for "International Institute for Business Networking" advertises it as essentially a consulting company with "MBA" being one of their products. It is touted as a "joint" Russian-Swiss program; Swiss partner appears to be "UBIS University Geneva", which apparently has accreditation from IACBE. In the other words, their Russian license does not cut it even in the Russian market. Honestly, a school from India has more credibility than this thingy.
     
  10. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Well, there is such a thing as Master Craftsman, or Master Mechanic a kind of Diploma or certification. In some countries like Germany Master Craftsman is a respected qualification but not a degree.
    I remember some entities used to award certified MBA and Certified DBA that is really not a degree but some kind of professional diploma or qualification with little or no recognition.
    I can see as a Master of Business Administration can be applied trade or professional qualification.
     
  11. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    The old trick of opening a professional association that validates a third party degree from a non recognized school. An example below,the institute of professional financial managers validate the degrees from schools like St Clements University and grants a "Doctoral Diploma".

    https://ipfm.org/index.php/qualifications/financial-management

    I can pay $299 for a trade mark for a protected title such as "Certified Doctor of Finance", spend another $100 and open a UK organization and then open a school that grants degrees that are validated from an UK organization that then gives the impression to the student that is getting a UK degree but in fact is just getting a certificate that has no academic value.

    The CV from the prospect student would read "Doctoral graduate in Finance, the Institute of Professional Financial Managers, London UK". To the average employer, it looks like the person graduated from an UK institution but in fact the person paid few thousand to a diploma mill and got the UK qualification. It is legal as the UK institution is not granting a degree but a diploma and it is registered as a education company.
     
    Mac Juli likes this.
  12. Mac Juli

    Mac Juli Active Member

    Well, it's not so that IPFM give their diplomas to anyone. From their website: "All work must score at least 70% on the Grammarly Checker.". Fun fact: They fail to attend this score.
    :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2020
  13. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    The best is their accreditation "IPFM is recognized by www.wikipedia.org as a British Professional Body. ".

    Wikipedia mentioned is an impressive accreditation.

    The idea is simple, open a legal institution in a European Country with credibility (e.g. Russia, Spain). Create an accreditation body in a very credible place like the UK that accredits my operation in Russia, Spain, etc.

    If you check the IPFM website, there are hundreds of graduates and each spent few thousand dollars for their IPFM qualifications so the conclusion is that pays off well to spend few thousand dollars for this operation.

    In Spain the situation is Similar than Russia, I can open an education institution tomorrow and legally grant MBAs as long as I disclose in my website that these are private non official MBAs. Then I open a professional body in the UK and accredit these diplomas with a certified MBA, Certified Master of Finance, etc titles and the student can officially put in his CV an UK qualification. In the UK, there are so many professional associations that who knows if the one on a CV is real or not, you need to really do some research to validate but for the average employers, you have a degree from the UK.

    With Globalization, it is impossible to keep track of what is real and what is not. I bet that a lot of the graduates of these places do well, many already have good qualifications but need a qualification from a credible place like the UK just to boost a CV. I know that in the middle east, most companies would only hire people with UK, Canada, US or Australian Qualifications so my degree from other country together with my MBA from a place like IPFM or similar might do the trick.
     
    Mac Juli likes this.
  14. Mac Juli

    Mac Juli Active Member

    ARGHL...

    I can hear a voice in my mind.

    "Come on, Mac Juli. Come to the dark side. Open a questionable institute, let these diplomas validated and get rich quickly. Award yourself as many diplomas as you wish and put even Idi Amin to shame. Come to the dark side. It can be that easy. We got the diplomas here."

    HELP!!

    :)
     
  15. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    It is very tempting, after some time in this forum and learning how operations from UCN, Azteca, etc seem to be quite lucrative. I did some research and found that Dominica and Costa Rica allow you to open Universities and legally grant any degree you want as long as you do it with a foreign partner and not enroll local students. So, instead of spending the 10K in a Russian DBA, with the same money you can open a legal University in Dominica or Costa Rica and grant to yourself (legally) all the degrees that you want.

    The school in Costa Rica and Dominica only would need a website and a postal address. The teaching can be outsourced through the world by local institutes in India, Malyasia, Nigeria, etc. To give yourself some credibility, for few thousand you can open an accrediting agency in the US registered in Delaware with a nice sounding name that will give professional accreditation to your degrees or open a church in the US that will grant double degrees with the equivalent of your Dominica or Costa Rican degree but with religious modifies (e.g. Master of Business Metaphysics, Metaphysical MAster of Finance, Master of Metaphysical Psychology) etc.

    Finally, you open a foreign evaluation credential service in California that will grant certificates that your Costa Rican or Dominican degrees are equivalent to Regionally accredited US degrees. This registration might cost few thousand but worth it because it will give credibility to your degrees.

    The above operation is totally legal and has no risk of being shutdown as you are doing everything according to the law. However, it is totally unethical.

    Some food for thought about the value of education and how easy is to manipulate the system to grant meaningless credentials to people in need to boost a CV to earn a living.
     
    Mac Juli likes this.
  16. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    How in the world is Russia a "European Country with credibility"? It might be an ultimate rogue state, with corrupt crony capitalist economy.
    Take a look at this:
    http://rosvuz.dissernet.org/
    If you don't read Russian, and Google Translate is inadequate, just get a load of the size of that table. This is a summary of cases of Russian universities whose faculty and/or admins were caught in cases of academic dishonesty. Mostly it's a straightforward fraud, dissertations defended with high degree of blatant plagiarism. Many of these are Russian elite, but university faculty and leaders indulge in these practices as well. In case you wondered, yes, Putin is a PhD in Economics, and yes, "his" work contains whole pages lifted out of two American textbooks - and this plagiarism case is less blatant than many Dissernet cases. Also, that table includes cases from the very top Russian universities, including the coveted Lomonosov Moscow State U. Vast majority of identified perps suffered no consequences whatsoever.
    And BTW, the entity we discuss is not even that credible by RUSSIAN standards. Russian MBA is not seen as a credible credential in Russia, either; these program are like overpriced continuing education training for people with too much money to burn.
     
  17. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I am just basing my criteria based on Experience. I worked in Engineering and many of my bosses will consider people with degrees from Western Europe, UK, Australia, USA and Russia. Russian engineers in general were well educated and had good performance.

    Again, credibility is very relative. A Russian degree might not be credible to you but to a person in India or Sri Lanks, it is a step up.

    Yes, I agree that 10K is very expensive considering that with the same money you can buy your own University in some countries like Dominica.

    However, the 10K might look cheap to an American that is considering a DBA from a DETC school for double the price.

    It is all relative. Otherwise, how can you explain that people are paying thousands of dollars for degrees from Nicaragua? Nicaragua is not exactly known for not being corrupt.

    According the website below, Russia ranks 137/180 , Nicaragua 161/180 and Mexico 130/180. So technically, Russia is more credible than Nicaragua and about the same as Mexico if we use corruption indexes as a way to measure credibility.

    If people are paying money for Nicaraguan and Mexican Degrees, why not Russian?

    https://www.transparency.org/country/RUS
     
  18. mbwa shenzi

    mbwa shenzi Active Member

    Well, I guess you know already that IPFM is one of Jeff Wooller's (Irish International University, Irish University Business School, Irish Business School, Jeff Wooller College etc) creations, and he's no stranger to St Clements.
     
  19. asianphd

    asianphd Member

    CMI is the only organisation that offers Level 8 (equivalent to a Doctorate).

    Diploma in CMI Level 8 in Strategic Direction and Leadership
    £1495.00 GBP Course Fee
    £318.00 GBP Registration Fee
    £1813.00 GBP Total Cost

    I saw a lot of similar offerings in reed. But I am curious, what is exactly the meaning of the 'equivalent' here?
    For example, if I have Level 7, is it really considered a master's level?
     
  20. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Again, the people is full of clever people that manipulate the system to make money but not exactly in an ethical but in a legal manner. Wasn't Donald Trump running his own University?

    Most of these operations use the psychological need of people of survival in a brutal world that becomes more demanding every day.
    I cannot find a reason for someone to go for a Russian DBA other than the desperate need to boost a CV because of lack of job opportunities. The desperate individual goes with the Russia, Nicaraguan, etc degree because is all he or she can afford.
    The greedy Jeff Wooller or similar individuals just profit from the desperate need of people and manipulate the system to get the people the qualification they believe (not that they need it but belief is everything) they need.
    Again, if I know the system well, I can manipulate and create business models that produce paper qualifications that have no intention to educate but just to fill the need to boost a CV for desperate individuals to keep getting work as poor adjuncts, getting work, etc.

    Again, if the poorly paid adjunct at an American University was doing fine with an MBA, why do they need a DBA? because everyone is getting one so I feel the anxiety that I will lose my job if I dont get one and with my poor salary I have no choice but to go for a Nicaraguan, Mexican, Russian or Martian degree just to remain employable.
     
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