RA vs. NA, perspective from a student/hiring professional

I didn't mean to imply that you should never change schools. I did it, but the choice should not be made lightly. In doing so I lost around 10 classes.

 

I am a top executive for a large property management firm based in the DC area. Our field is highly competitive and is becoming increasingly more specialized. As a company, we look first for experience, second for education. The education can be RA or NA. We don't necessarily even look at the major. So many people change fields today. We look for someone that is motivated, intelligent, and has shown the dedication necessary to complete an accredited degree program, period. An RA degree is NO guarantee of a successful career. I can't tell you how many people I've seen fail over the years that have outstanding, RA credentials. I've said it on this board a million times, there are good schools and bad schools, both RA and NA. There are good workers and solid professionsals that have NA degrees, RA degrees, or even no degree at all. As for me? I am a 37 year old VP, earn 6 figures a year, own several rental properties, etc. I have been very successful with no degree at all. I have successfully completed classes at RA schools and NA schools, and have chosen to enroll at an NA college, primarily for my own satisfaction. It will have no impact on my career at all. People have their reasons for doing what they do. It would be wrong to assume that those enrolled in NA degree programs are losers or are looking for an easy way out. Those opinions are typically held by RA degree holders that believe their credential make them superior to others around them. Yes, RA degrees are more widely accepted...but I find that most of the bias against NA degrees exists in academia, not in the work force. There are some exceptions, yes, some employers require RA credentials, but most I have come across do not. Nor have I found RA verse NA degrees any indicator as to the success or failure rate of an employee. People tend to equate acceptance or recognition with quality. I could not disagree more.

Pug

 

Some clarifications:
I support all people making the best use of their potential. In our society, the surest way to success (other than inheritance) is prolonged education. I salute anyone who goes to school and gets a legitimate degree. The questions are: What is legitimate ? and, Which of the legitimate options is most useful ? I've tried to state the actual "on the street" truth - which is that the school - and by correlation the accreditation status of the school - makes a big difference - most immediately in hiring, and also in lifetime earnings. I believe this is true at all work levels, and in all industries, though most sharply in high tech. Degree mills are out of the question - everyone should agree on that. NA schools are the scrapings at the bottom of the legitimacy barrel.

 

I'm familiar with the various schools and programs on the West Coast - my recruiting area. And there are other clues on the resume. A DL degree from a quality school is not disqualifying - but it raises eyebrows.

I've always had the latest edition of Bear's Guide with me - whenever I'm reviewing resumes. It used to be a joke - if the school shows up in Bear's, throw the resume out... Also, the Gourman Report if I was recruiting for something really specialized. After long expereince of reviewing resumes, you know the accreditation status of most schools and their degree programs in the catchment area.

There are many interconnected issues in your (sarcastic) question. One confounding factor is that the elite MBA schools self-select for outstanding students. For example: Executive MBAs today look less and less like their regular full-time MBA equivalents - Executive MBA curricula are truncated to the point that some of the "meat" of the degree is probably missing. Does this mean the Executive MBA *grads* are not as good ? No - because executive MBA students are usually selected and sponsored "high fliers" in their companies. So, even though their degree studies are probably inferior, as a class the Executive MBA grads are more capable. Similarly, a grad with a DL MBA from an elite school is probably pre-selected to be a better Manager, with higher potential, than a B&M MBA grad from East Pudunk U. That's the main reason elite companies recruit only at elite MBA schools. They miss a few gems, but they save a lot of time.

Maybe - but you still have to audition...

 

Yes but...the person with the good degree is much more likely to be hired, stick around and get that ten years experience. So, we're back to acknowledging the plain truth: get a degree from the best RA school you can find, or prepare for a long career as an NA-degreed sandwich artist.

 

"I've tried to state the actual "on the street" truth - which is that the school - and by correlation the accreditation status of the school - makes a big difference - most immediately in hiring, and also in lifetime earnings."

Again, I'll have to disagree. My "on the street" experience has shown the exact opposite.

Pug

 

Kalos,

Wow. It sounds like you have a personal knock against NA, not an objective take. I have no degree...I am persuing an NA degree. Would you consider my career to be "a long one as a sandwich artist?" I'm number 4 in a large company, live very comfortably, have a family, have prepaid college tuition for 3 sons, and am on track to an early retirement.

Pug

 

I don't have a degree. I'm an executive with one of the nation's top credit unions, the only executive here, in fact, without a degree. As you know, I will be finishing my first degree this year (knock wood).

I've been interviewing and hiring for a very long time, going on 25 years now.

I personally put very little weight on a degree when hiring for a position. Experience more than any other factor is primary, in my mind. Someone with 3-4 years experience is more likely to land a position with me than is someone who has a degree and a year or two of experience.

Once you pass 5 years of direct, useful experience, degree or not, you're pretty much on the same plane in my book.

I personally, for my own degree, will not accept anything other than a RA degree. That is, however, my personal choice. When considering someone who has a degree, whether that degree is RA or NA is not really material to me, unless I have heard that a particular school has been cited for problems or sub-standard educational practices.

As far as DL vs B&M degrees are concerned, I have no bias one way or the other. What you get out of education is equal to what you put in, IMO. Therefore, in either case someone could get a good or a bad education, regardless of whether they got it online or in the classroom.

Finally, I am more apt to give someone "credit" for earning a degree if they did so later in life during their full-on career development. The reason is that it signals to me a strong commitment to making themselves better, and the ability to manage school on top of career, family, and other commitments in life.

Kalos, while I personally prefer an RA degree, I think your characterization in the above quote is unnecessarily insulting.

 

Pugbelly: I am a top executive for a large property management firm based in the DC area. Our field is highly competitive and is becoming increasingly more specialized. As a company, we look first for experience, second for education. The education can be RA or NA. We don't necessarily even look at the major. So many people change fields today.

SIMON: Thanks for sharing your hiring practices within your firm.

Pugbelly: We look for someone that is motivated, intelligent, and has shown the dedication necessary to complete an accredited degree program, period.

SIMON: These traits, among many others, are obviously very important and sought by those doing the hiring in many employment sectors.

Pugbelly: An RA degree is NO guarantee of a successful career.

SIMON: You were doing very well until this point! How do you arrive at this conclusion from what you stated above? In fact there is "NO guarantee" that if an applicant is intelligent or motivated that they will have "a successful career" either! There are myriad factors that enter into having a "successful career" including the "right" personality traits, emotional intelligence, ability to work in a collaborative manner with colleagues, similarity with the companies values and culture, adaptability, etc. So it is a given that NO ONE factor results in a "successful career" but a constellation of characteristics including the appropriate educational and experience for the job being offered.

Pugbelly: I can't tell you how many people I've seen fail over the years that have outstanding, RA credentials.

SIMON: With all due respect, what are you trying to prove, that you do not have a degree and are being defensive? Your above statement does not prove anything about the lack of value of an "RA credential" because millions of people fail or are derailed in their careers for myriad reasons having absolutely nothing to do with having "outstanding, RA credentials".

Pugbelly:I've said it on this board a million times, there are good schools and bad schools, both RA and NA.

SIMON: Your statement above is disconnected from your previous thought!

Pugbelly: There are good workers and solid professionsals that have NA degrees, RA degrees, or even no degree at all.

SIMON: Obviously!

Pugbelly: As for me? I am a 37 year old VP, earn 6 figures a year, own several rental properties, etc. I have been very successful with no degree at all.

SIMON: Good for you. You have done very well for yourself. However your success without a degree has absolutely no bearing on the value or lack of value of RA degrees. In addition you are not alone in your success because millions of others have done the same.

Pugbelly: I have successfully completed classes at RA schools and NA schools, and have chosen to enroll at an NA college, primarily for my own satisfaction.

SIMON: That is good news. I wish you well in your college program.

Pugbelly: It will have no impact on my career at all.

SIMON: But that is you and has absolutely nothing to do with the majority of individuals who require specific educational background for myriad professional jobs.

Pugbelly:It would be wrong to assume that those enrolled in NA degree programs are losers or are looking for an easy way out.

SIMON: I agree.

Pugbelly: Those opinions are typically held by RA degree holders that believe their credential make them superior to others around them. Yes, RA degrees are more widely accepted...

SIMON: You are contradicting yourself. First you state that the problem is with "RA degree holders" who want to make themselves feel superior THEN you immediately add "Yes, RA degrees are more widely accepted...". In fact your second statement that RA degrees are more widely accepted in the MAJORITY of work and academic sectors is the primary issue NOT that RA degree holders feel superior.

Pugbelly:but I find that most of the bias against NA degrees exists in academia, not in the work force. There are some exceptions, yes, some employers require RA credentials, but most I have come across do not.

SIMON: That is not true. Preference, not "bias" is accorded RA degrees not only in academia BUT in many employment sectors, for many professional licensing and certification requirements, etc. Futhermore, the fact that you have not encountered most employers who "require RA credentials" is great but does not represent the state of affairs for MANY other employers who do.

Pugbelly: Nor have I found RA verse NA degrees any indicator as to the success or failure rate of an employee. People tend to equate acceptance or recognition with quality. I could not disagree more.

SIMON: You are being very defensive and repeating yourself. here is no need to defend your lack of degree or your pursuing an NA degree. If it meets your needs go for it and the best of luck to you

 

Theres been two white collar workers on this bored who are responsible for hiring who have stated experience will get you the job not the degree and ra/na is an after thought.

obviously there is a difference between RA/NA. I'm not gonna debate that.

Yes, there's situations where NA/DETC degree's are not gonna cut it. I'm not gonna debate that either

Its really simple.. The hold debate comes done to this

If one seeks employment in a specific field he should first seek out the qualifications. Then work at acquiring them..


Your not gonna go get a Phd when your goal is to be Plumber

 

Agreed. And rather pompous as well.


Abner

 

It's common among persons with no degree to claim a degree is unnecessary. They even get a bit touchy and hostile about their deficiency.

 

Kalos
The line has been cast, the bait has been eaten, the fish is on the line and the troll clammers in delight awaitiing the next tug on the line.

Bill

 

Kalos:

I'm a technician for a phone company.... I maintain / Install telecommuncations equipment. I been doing it for 9 years I make a good living

When I was hired the minimum qualifictions for my job was as such 2 year degree in technical field or relative work experience and training.

I got the job because I had relative work experience and training via the military

I work alongside people who have AS & BS degrrees from ABET/TAC schools. Such as New England Tech http://www.neit.edu/ & SUNY http://www.suny.edu/

I was told by my hiring mgr that he would rather hire miltary because we get the job done and the colleges guys whine. Isn't that the truth..

once your in the door promotions are based on merit (along with who you know) not the degree that you hold.

To me not having a degree isn't a deficiency because I have relative experience which is equal to the degree that is required for my employment .. Plus I have something the colleges guys don't ! I know how it feels to put on uniform and serve this country

 

Kalos:
Opinions are like an anus, everybody has one and this remark, "NA schools are the scrapings at the bottom of the legitimacy barrel." proves it.

 

I never said a degree was unnecessary. I said I didn't have a degree, that I was persuing one for personal satisfaction, and that at my place and level, it will have no impact on my career. I also said as a company, we look first for experience, second for education. I believe degrees are extremely helpful, both personally and professionaly speaking. That's why I am persuing one. That's why I've prepaid college tuition for my sons. My point is that both NA and RA degrees are typically accepted in the corporate world, and that there are a multitude of reasons why someone might want to go NA. All things being equal, RA is almost always the safer bet due to wider recognition, but all things aren't always equal.


Pug

 

.

 

What a bunch of rubbish!

I wonder who is this Kalos. An old friend of DegreeInfo.com?

I think he´s a troll. So watch out, guys.

 

Wow...that's the understatement of the day...no offense JLV.

I am still working toward my degree, and am currently studying with an NA DL institution. I chose it based upon cost and convenience, nothing more. So far, I have been extremely happy with my choice. I am still in my first semester, and I obtained a job IN PART because I am making the effort to study and get my degree. NA or RA wasn't even part of the job interview discussion. Neither was DL or B&M. The employer was just impressed that I was actually making the effort to get ANY degree.

The real reason I got my job was based upon my experience, not my education. In the past, my lack of degree has cost me job opportunities...no doubt about it. That doesn't really seem to be the case anymore.

 

You could tell him how Bill Gates, Ben Franklin, Abraham Lincoln, et. al. have/had no degree, and it does not matter, because that's not what this is about.

This is about one little knave with an inferiority complex disrupting a whole forum and getting his chuckles out of it. It's not about what he says, I don't even know if he cares what he says--that's not what it's about.

Don't feed the troll! Ignore him, folks. Put him on your ignore list. Who cares who he is? We already know what he is.