Quality Assurance in France

A troll is someone that comes into a discussion forum and makes statements to stir up reactions just for the entertainment of getting people excited and thereby becoming the center of attention.

 

Re: Re: Re: URe: Re: Reality about the CNE

Please don't try to change the subject. We are not discussing "VAE" in this thread, nor is anyone objecting to the idea of prior learning assessments.

The subject here is French private higher education institutions and whether or not individual ones should be accepted by Americans as having the equivalent of accreditation.

I know that you don't like the word "vague", but just insisting that the "government" exercises "control" IS vague.
Lerner started this thread to draw our attention to the CNE, and you immediately jumped in and said that the CNE restricts its attention to public institutions.

So I ask you once again: What agency in France exercises the CNE's function in the case of private institutions? How may they be contacted? How may an Anglophone determine the nature and scope of this agency's oversight and the results for particular institutions?

The only one arguing is you.

Lerner directed our attention to the CNE. I pointed out that I'd already asked Alain Michal whether UFRdS was subject to the CNE or to any similar French government oversight, and that his slightly hysterical response was that the CNE had been "abrogated" in 2000, in the name of European integration or something.

By the way, Alain is still insisting on other boards that Degreeinfo tried to discredit Sorbon by citing "abrogated laws", when all I did was ask him if UFRdS was subject to the CNE or to something similar. (My precise question is posted up above.)

Then I kind of dryly noted that whatever the CNE's status ("abrogated" (Alain), only applicable to public institutions (you) or whatever), it's safe to say that it doesn't recognize Sorbon.

There is nothing "ill advised" about that. It's simply the truth.

You are changing the subject again. The first post in this thread had nothing to do with Alan Contreras. It was Learner drawing our attention to the CNE.

 

Re: Re: Reality about the CNE

Here on Degreeinfo,the only objection that I've seen to "VAE" is to the way that some very doubtful "universities" have tried to use it to confuse potential students and to justify their selling "life experience degrees".

I don't think that anyone has ever made that argument.

If French private institutions aren't subject to the equivalent of American accreditation, then Americans would be very foolish to assume that they are all "RA-equivalent" simply because they are French.

OK. You file an application, the fire marshall looks at the premises (perhaps that's waived for DL schools) and the administrators can't have criminal records.

Sorbon has libraries and labs? And what do the faculty and the syllabus look like for their life experience degrees?

The point is, not only are these requirements more similar to rather weak American state licensing than to regional accreditation, it isn't even clear who actually enforces this stuff or how Sorbon managed to pass. (Assuming just for the sake of argument that it really did.)

OK, then I will.

Mr. Contreras was talking about the Universite Francophone Robert de Sorbon:

http://www.sorbonedu.com

This thing uses the name "universite", it claims to be registered in the American state of Maine (where it apparently has no degree granting authorization) and it claims "accreditation" from the Comoros Islands way off in the Indian Ocean.

According to earlier Degreeinfo threads, the UFRdS website was once registerd to Dr. Prade, though it now has an anonymous registration, and it used his Florida AUAP mailing address as its "admissions office". (The UFRdS 'contact' link has also been sanitized and is now just an email address).

But if you click on the "page in English" link on the left hand side of the page, you are suddenly delivered to the Ecole Superieure Robert de Sorbon, which we are assured oh so piously is a legitimate French ecole and entirely RA-equivalent. (Though its omnipresent spokesmen get rather evasive when they are asked to justify that last bit.)

Nevertheless, we are assured that credential evaluators will verify its equivalency and that its degrees will win their holders American immigration benefits. (When you click on 'evaluateurs' on the UFRdS webpage, it takes you direct to Dr. Prade's own AUAP.)

So, why is this thing marketing itself as a quasi-American "universite" (with no discernable degree granting authority) to Francophones, but as a "private French ecole" to Anglophones?

 

Here's the best explanation that I've seen on how French private higher education institutions are recognized:

http://www.egide.asso.fr/uk/guide/comprendre/etablissements/superieur/prives.jhtml

*****************
State recognition for private institutions can take three forms:

The institution may be recognized by the Ministry for Youth, National Education and Research, following an audit covering teaching staff, course content and timetables. Recognition (reconnaissance) is a prerequisite to state certification for the diplomas awarded by the institution (visa du diplôme).

The diplomas awarded by the institution may be certified by the Ministry for Youth, National Education and Research, through the visa du diplôme process, following an audit covering aspects such as teaching quality, admission requirements and teaching methods. This process is only open to institutions that have been recognized by the state for at least five years.

The diplomas awarded by the institution may be approved under the homologation du titre process by an interministerial commission, which primarily examines the vocational aspects of the teaching programmes. Approval is not dependent on either of the other two recognition processes (reconnaissance or visa).

****************

OK, assuming just for the sake of argument that Ecole Superieure Robert de Sorbon has government recognition, I'm guessing that it must be the 'reconnaissance' referred to above. (The 'visa du diplome' process sounds a lot more like what Americans understand by 'accreditation'.)

ESRdS has only been operating for the last few months as far as I can see, and it certainly isn't five years old. Besides, the teaching quality audits referred to above don't really look much like what our Swiss friend has been describing.

So assuming that it didn't sneak in under this 'homlogation du titre' thing, it's probably safe to say that ESRdS's diplomas are not certified by the Ministry of Youth, National Education and Research.

I'd interpret all of this to mean that ESRdS has, at best, the equivalent of state-approval, and it doesn't really seem to be accredited at all.

 

Yes I agree.

I think theey have # 1 not sure if they in final stage or really have # 1.

All private institutions can request state recognition.

First Level

The Minister for Higher Education grants recognition by decree. Recognized institutions are entitled to receive state subsidies and their students can receive public education grants. Recognized institutions are subject to inspection, and the appointment of their directors and teaching staff is subject to approval by the recteur of the académie.

Final level:

The Minister for Higher Education can, by decree, grant institutions that have been recognized by the State for at least five years the right to award official certificates ("revêtus du visa officiel' in current jargon). The criteria for awarding this right are the same as for recognition, but include additional requirements concerning the level and quality of education.

If Sorbon has the # 1 then they have 3 to 5 years for the Final one.

Regards,

Lerner

 

Re: Re: Re: Reality about the CNE

The Ecole Supérieure Robert de Sorbon and Université Francophone Robert de Sorbon are not two distinct and separate entities, as some would have you now believe. The Web site belonging to the Ecole Supérieure Robert de Sorbon has this to say concerning their recognition.

• Is the French VAE "diplôme" valuable & recognized ?
  
  The French Ecole Supérieure Robert de Sorbon is registered and authorized to bestow degrees as per L 731-14 of the code de l'éducation de la République Française. Our degrees, for an extra cost, may get the "Apostille" of the French authorities. Our institution is also accredited by other sovereign nations (click here). [emphasis added]

Clicking on the link leads to a pdf document supposedly declaring the recognition of Université Francophone Robert de Sorbon by the Ministry of Education, Youth, and Sports of the Government of the Autonomous Island of Anjouan-Nzudiani, Comoros Islands.

In other words, Ecole Supérieure Robert de Sorbon, on their own Web site, clearly states that it and Université Francophone Robert de Sorbon are the same institution. However, it seems that they want to have it both ways: They want to be viewed as two separate entities when the validity and legality of either comes into question, but they want to be considered the same “institution” when they can point to anything that, however remotely, might pass as "proof" of some kind of legitimacy.

How long do think it will be before either the Web page or the pdf document are modified?

 

Sorbon is a diploma mill, as everyone here already knows. Everyone except one shill (perhaps more) that keeps coming here under different aliases and claims that English is their second language and that we are all up in arms about VAE.

P.S. the one shill I'm sure is aware that Sorbon is a degree mill but has deluded him/herself into believing that they are tricking people.