PhD residency

Prof. kennedy: "I disagree. Pedagogy and standards are not to be decided by "accreditors" and agencies. That is a faculty responsibility. There is every point in complaining about it and disregarding the views of people unqualified to pontificate on unresearched pedagogy."


Cehi: I agree with the basis of your disagreement.

 

Bill and all - this has been an interesting discussion. A few points come to mind:

1. There are a variety of preferences being expressed. This not withstanding, what are schools requiring? Except for Touro and NCU, is anyone else going with a totally residence free doctoral program? Argosy, UoP, NSU, Capella and Walden all have short residencies. If the no residency approach was really doable - why wouldn't a school like UoP go that way? Also, what about the regional accreditors? Touro is accredited with MSA and NCU is with NCA. Are these just exceptions? Or are NCA and MSA really open to the idea? Would the Soutern or Western association even think of allowing such programs? Only time will tell.

2. As for explaining in words why residency is required - I certainly tried in my post. Besides the benefits of face to face communications, what about the integrity matter? I'm waiting for one of the DL schools to get scammed and find themselves awarding a degree to someone's dog. Schools have to know who they are dealing with - and the web is the perfect place for people to fake their identity.

Regards - Andy

 

No residency for me

Professor Kennedy, I appreciate your support of my position, but wanted to clarify the "he/she" part. I am a "she", and while
Cehi professes to be a Longhorn forever (hookem' horns!), I am a Bruins fan (UCLA), hence the name "Bruinsgrad". As for Andy's concerns, I have the smartest dog on this planet, but he's yet to be able to produce a dissertation. Would that he could......
It didn't take my gifted professors long to establish the identity of each DL participant, and in fact, I could tell by the tone and writing style who had made each contribution to our discussions.
Do you really think anyone would be willing to spend 3-5 years doing the work of a doctoral student without being the one to receive the credit??

 

I am still reading all of the postings, but here is my opinion (which may be supplemented as I read this thread).

I have conducted my MBA online, with residency visits. I do not think that it was imperative for the degree, but I do think it helped a great deal. We had orals, presentations, and finals during visits, as well as team building. I did have to miss one visit, which was accommodated.

My doctorate programs (applied) both have residency requirements (1-2 a year). I think this makes the program stronger, I actually thought that it hurts TUI program to not have at least one a year. In my opinion, psychology is psychology and I thinks the visits help.

This relates to a business partnership I am in. We have one partner in No. Cal., one in So. Cal, One in Florida, and one in Alabama. We have face to face meetings and team building. Why? Because when we have met and been through team building events, it helps the relationships. When the people call that I have met, I will go above and beyond….

Just my 2 cents.

 

Why anyone would spend 30K to get a degree for a dog? It goes beyond my logic! In the defense of DL doctorate, I can speak for NCU, they required as part of the admission process to sent an official copy of an ID, such as driver license, and we are require to have video camera for net conference,so you see, this way when they see my ugly face, they know is me and not my dog. So face to face is accomplished!

 

Vinipink: " Why anyone would spend 30K to get a degree for a dog? It goes beyond my logic! In the defense of DL doctorate, I can speak for NCU, they required as part of the admission process to sent an official copy of an ID, such as driver license, and we are require to have video camera for net conference,so you see, this way when they see my ugly face, they know is me and not my dog. So face to face is accomplished!"

Cehi: Hey, I am glad to know that the driver license for ID. purposes and the use of video camera for conferences really solved the problem...Very interesting. Thank you.

 

Does the schools that require residency check ID. I don't think that is the reason that they require residency. Though that problem is solved when tests are required via proctored exams, but I see the point.

 

I'd like to respond to the issue of psychology training. In applied psychology programs (clinical, counseling school, and some of the emerging specialties like neuropsychology) training takes place in two phases. Most students spend 3-4 years on campus then move on to the year-long pre-doctoral internship. There is an APA provision for “captive” internships which are in-house. If they exist at all, they are very few in number and most students find it necessary to relocate. During the campus phase students learn theory and have an exposure to applied work like assessment, treatment and consultation via coursework and practica. Frequently the practicum hours are taken at a university-based “psychology clinic” although these hours are often taken at community facilities. I don't know how the distance based programs teach what I typically think of as skills that require direct, 1:1, exposure. I think of how useful (not to mention intimidating) it was when Alan Kaufmann role-played a recalcitrant examinee in one of the intellectual assessment courses in class followed by additional challenges on the part of his graduate assistant. But that's another issue. Skills taught in class and initially practiced in practica are honed and hardended during the internship year. Moreover, most states require at least a year of post-PhD supervised experience. In days gone by most newly graduated psychologists were routinely provided the supervision required to sit for the exam but given healthcare economics few facilities can afford this. New hires must have a license to bill for services in order to support their FTE. Many new graduates elect what is becoming an extremely common pathway of doing a post-doctoral residency in order to obtain the supervised hours. So, the university-based residency as the one and only source of clinical skill-acquisition is a bit of a red herring.

That said, I feel very fortunate to have had the degrees of freedom to be able to attend a B&M school. The camaradie and esprit-de-corps were great but there was much more. As other folk have noted, on-site training facilitated networking but even more important it facilitated mentoring. Many faculty encourage students to become a part of their research; indeed, one of my colleages didn't have to collect a single data point, she got the data for her disser from her advisor's database. I have no idea if DL doctoral students have the same opportunities to become involved in their advisor's research and do things like co-present at national meetings. The research experience itself is valuable but, I think, the bonding on these road trips is priceless. Additionally, many faculty organize their advisees into pods in which younger students help older students' dissertation research by doing things like running subjects or work on data analysis. Another benefit I had from direct immersion was developing a very good idea about the culture of psychology before I left for internship. Which, even though I was a seasoned social worker and worked alongside psychologists for years, I honestly didn't grasp before I entered psychology training. Why, you might ask, is this important? John Holland, a noted vocational psychologist, found that people who succeed in jobs tend to have similar characteristics. Conversely, people who leave a job or profession may find they just don't fit in with their peers. In my case, I've always liked machinery and I found that I liked computers so I embarked on a DL degree and I'm one course away from a BS in IT. But I've never had an exposure to an IT climate and I may find that I can't stand rubbing shoulder with the pocket-protector crowd. Although it does seem unlikely, can you imagine what a drag it would be to complete a DL PhD only to discover you dislike the work climate?

Last, for Janko, like the old Sawyer-Brown song says, “I ain't first class but I ain't white trash” and as a taxpayer I was able to obtain borrowing privileges at the University of Illinois. An even better bonus is a professional license gets you a stack pass.

 

Bruingrad: "Cehi professes to be a Longhorn forever (hookem' horns!)"


Cehi: Yep. Longhorn forever.

 

quote:

Dr. Okonkwo wrote;

"I can't recall any PharD program than can be completed entirely through DL. At Nova, the first fours years of PharmD program requires on-campus instructions and labs. It is the last two years of the program that may be completed through a combination of online and short-residency formats".


There are quite a number of them. I work in the health care industry. Beside pharmacy, there are other degrees you can obtain entirely campus free but not entirely hands on free in health care. Most of R.Phs (Registered Pharmacists) now going back to school for PharmD (Doctor of Pharmacy) are doing it entirely online.

Godwin

 

Post baccalaureate PharmD programs can be completed at a distance because it is the same as the last two years of a Pharmacy program. The post baccalaureate program is for holders of B.S in Pharmacy who choose to convert to PharmD. Pharmacy schools in the US currently award PharmD as the first professional degree because B.S. in Pharmacy no longer qualifies graduates for licensure. A PharmD degree takes six years to complete. The first four yeas of a PharmD program require on-campus instructions and labs. R.Phs are registered pharmacists. In the past, B.S. (Pharm) degree was the only required degree for licensure. The current requirement for licensure is PharmD but those who were licensed prior to the new requirement are not required to pursue any post baccalaureate program. The post baccalaureate program is an optional program for registered pharmacist. No pharmacy program can be completed entirely by DL unless it is a post baccalaureate program.

Ike

 

Dr. Okonkwo,

You are preaching to the choir here. I know all of these you just stated. When one says a program can be completed entirely online or at a distance people tend to confuse the fact that when a practicum is required for a program it can be skipped. It cannot whether it is online or face to face. You still must meet the requirements of the program. For example, Calfornia College of Health Sciences (not sure if this is the correct name now) but have had experience with them. They have been training health professionals at a distance for years. I once had one of their Respiratory students in Colorado. They provide the courses and arrange for a site with the students and report of the practicum are sent back to the school.

It is possible to do PharmD entirely online but the practicum still must be met. Why the market for PharmD? Because it is now required for primary licensure for pharmacists as you already stated. However, depending on the state, those with R.Phs are grandfathered. Some states went as far as legally confering "doctorates" on practicing pharmacists. In Maryland for example, they are "P.D" for pharmacy doctors and in Oklahoma, they are "D.Ph" for doctor of pharamacists. Guess what? Many of them actually call themselves doctors. Do I call them doctors? Hell yes. Who am I not to call them doctors.

Bottom line is many want to get the real thing by actually doing the work and there are many schools that have filled that void by providind an online option. Since I am not a pharmacist however, I cannot tell you which of the schools but I believe there is one in Colorado and several others.