PhD in Finance via Distance Learning?

Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by TEKMAN, Feb 20, 2019.

Loading...
  1. bceagles

    bceagles Member

    Not exactly what you are looking for, but maybe a consideration.

    I’ve had my eye on the PhD in Global Management from the Indiana Institute of Technology for some time. I really like the optics of this program, in other words, I think it would look good on a resume. I also assume that it would enable one to teach and everything else that comes along with being a PhD. Indiana Tech, not being a top tier institution, looks to be a decent school. Any thoughts on this program?

    https://phd.indianatech.edu/program/
     
  2. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    The DBA is fine if you are only interested in adjunct work. The problem is that DBA is quickly becoming a soft version of the PhD, some schools offer it in accelerated format and with lite course work. However, some schools are also offering executive PhDs that are really DBAs. The general perception is that a DBA is less than a PhD.
     
  3. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    It's generally a true statement you make, but it depends on the DBA program. Some, such as La Tech's DBA in Accountancy (not DL), are essentially a PhD, as they're heavy on the academic research, and are treated as such. . The University of Florida-Warrington is a great school and I can't imagine a DBA from there would harm you on the academic job market significantly. Others are more practitioner-based, light on quantitative research, and thus would probably confine people to adjunct work, at least at larger universities (though there are plenty of small colleges where a DBA that's more on the practitioner side seems to work just fine). Here's Anthony Pina's academic article on this: http://ijds.org/Volume11/IJDSv11p217-226MacLennan2459.pdf
     
  4. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Reputation of the school is more important that the designation of the degree. The issue is similar to the difference between MS and the MBA, some argue that the MS is more prestigious but in practice both are masters. However, there is a tendency to offer many fast track DBA programs by business schools so I have learned from few people that are finding difficulties getting tenure track jobs because the designation. The impression of some schools in my opinion is that people with DBAs are doing less work (many 3 year part time programs) and might not be as strong as those doing 4 to 5 year full time programs.
     
  5. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I believe this program is in Global Leadership. This is a "one size fits all" program with no specialization. It works for those with a specialized Masters and those not so interested in a full time academic career and in need of the PhD tag for professional advancement, adjunct work or teaching at a small university. It lacks AACSB accreditation and specialization. On the other hand, it is "user friendly" so it can be completed with a soft subject such as leadership.

    https://phd.indianatech.edu/program/curriculum/
     
  6. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    Thanks for linking to the article. Actually we did three studies, each of which was published in a peer-reviewed journal. The first found no significant difference between Ph.D. and DBA program curricula and requirements. The second found that the DBA is a viable credential for business faculty and the third found that DBA dissertations were no more "applied" than Ph.D. dissertations. So the sum total is that, on average, Ph.D. and DBA dissertations in management and general business are far more alike than they are different. Now, as some have rightly observed, individual programs at different colleges and universities will vary.
     
    SteveFoerster likes this.
  7. StevenKing

    StevenKing Member

    I am so glad Liberty is good enough for me.
     
    chrisjm18 likes this.
  8. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    Nice to see you back, Tony.

    I remember reading this article a few years ago and found the research impeccable. However, it is now going on four years later, and during that four years it appears that we have seen increasing testimony to the effect that the MBA has become the new BSBA, and that the DBA is becoming the new MBA. It's the same phenomenon we've seen with the Ed.D. in Leadership becoming the all-purpose, one-size-fits-everybody "doctorate du jour." And obviously, what we'll end up with is a DBA glut.

    The question then, is whether the comparison between doctorates as being equal will continue, or whether the DBA will ultimately become a joke for people who merely want a title.
     
  9. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Things are a bit more complex but I can see is few things:

    -Professors with PhDs from top schools don't like the idea to offer part time doctoral programs for professionals but they are open to the idea to offer DBAs. In few words, few top schools are offering DBAs as part time options for those that are unwilling to leave their jobs to do a doctorate program.
    -PhD programs seem be an academic credential for tenure track positions and the DBA for professionals that want to remain in industry and not so interested in tenure track. In practice, one could get a full time position as a faculty with a DBA but the stigma of the DBA being a light PhD is there.
    -DBAs are still good options for academia for those interested in going to a teaching university and not interested in a research University position. Teaching Universities normally don't care PhD vs DBA but research universities see DBAs are less qualified for research.
    -DBAs get quite few students because they are offered online, part time, etc while full time PhD programs get very few students. For this reason Universities see them as cash cows. University of Alberta opened a new distance DBA that costs more than 100K in tuition fees.
    - A DBA or PhD from a non ranked online school is perceived in general the same. Both are not so credible for research University tenure track positions so in this case it is up to the student to go for the designation that they like. DBAs might be perceived as better for professional positions than the rather focused PhD.

    In general, a DBA from an AACSB accredited school is more desirable than a PhD from a non AACSB accredited school.

    A DBA in Finance, Accounting or something specific has more value that a general DBA. Yes, the DBA and EdD in leadership might be equivalent for some type of positions, both are ideal for a person wanting an administration career in a university setting where the doctorate is a good thing to have but not a must. Many of University administrators have EdDs so the DBA can be a similar qualifier for similar positions.
     
  10. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    Thank you for your kind words, Steve. It was a big study (actually, we did the first two studies at the same time), so I really benefited having a talented team to work with, including Pat Hafford (who I actually met through Degreeinfo and who is a Dean at Wentworth Institute of Technology), Helen MacLennan, who is an Assistant Professor at St. Leo University and Ken Moran, Vice Provost at Sullivan University.

    The Department of Ed has moved away from its classification of research doctorates and first professional degrees with pretty specific definitions and characteristics, to its current more watered-down three categories of doctorate-research, doctorate-professional practice and doctorate-other (with institutions determining which of their degrees far under which category according to their own definitions). So, the comments that I have made over the years regarding the research showing the Ed.D. and Ph.D. in education to be mostly indistinguishable are now outdated. We are now seeing a plethora of non-dissertation Ed.D.s that have really muddied the waters. Right now, we are still at the point where most Ph.D.s in business and D.B.A.s are more similar than they are different, but, as you point out, that can changes as D.B.A.s follow the Ed.D. route.

    The Peabody Education Doctorate initiative to distinguish and upgrade the stature of the Ed.D. was not really followed by most schools--pity. Honestly, if Harvard hadn't have had its stupid turf-based rule that only its College of Arts and Sciences could award the Ph.D., we would not have the Ed.D. or the D.B.A. at all, as both degrees were invented at Harvard to allow the School of Education and the School of Business to offer doctorates. Since most principals and school superintendents do not perform doctoral-level research after they finish their dissertations, the Ed.S. should have been the terminal degree for them.

    **Rant over** :)
     
    SteveFoerster likes this.
  11. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    RFV-Professors with PhDs from top schools don't like the idea to offer part time doctoral programs for professionals but they are open to the idea to offer DBAs. In few words, few top schools are offering DBAs as part time options for those that are unwilling to leave their jobs to do a doctorate program.

    AP: I'm seeing the same thing in the schools that I visit on accreditation teams. There is enough demand among working students for business doctorates, that they will continue to proliferate. Honestly, there is little reasons why some of those part-time/online DBAs are not Ph.D.s. ​

    RFV-PhD programs seem be an academic credential for tenure track positions and the DBA for professionals that want to remain in industry and not so interested in tenure track. In practice, one could get a full time position as a faculty with a DBA but the stigma of the DBA being a light PhD is there.

    AP: That is the conventional wisdom, for sure. However, in our studies of over 100 doctoral programs in management and general business we did not find significant differences in curriculum, research course or other preparation. We also found over 300 graduate business faculty whose terminal degree was the DBA. ​

    RFV-DBAs are still good options for academia for those interested in going to a teaching university and not interested in a research University position. Teaching Universities normally don't care PhD vs DBA but research universities see DBAs are less qualified for research.

    AP: That could be true. However, in Helen's sample of Ph.D. versus DBA dissertation, the Ph.D. dissertations were just as "applied" as DBA dissertation, since business and management tends to be a pretty applied discipline overall.
    RFV-DBAs get quite few students because they are offered online, part time, etc while full time PhD programs get very few students. For this reason Universities see them as cash cows. University of Alberta opened a new distance DBA that costs more than 100K in tuition fees.

    AP: I think a lot of institutions (especially those offering their first doctorates) see DBAs and EdDs as easier to get approved and less likely to draw the ire of their state's flagship research universities.
    RFV- A DBA or PhD from a non ranked online school is perceived in general the same. Both are not so credible for research University tenure track positions so in this case it is up to the student to go for the designation that they like. DBAs might be perceived as better for professional positions than the rather focused PhD. In general, a DBA from an AACSB accredited school is more desirable than a PhD from a non AACSB accredited school.

    AP: You are correct. Because so many "bricks & mortar" universities are offering online degrees--including online doctorates--it is becoming more challenging to tell if the degree from, say, a state university is "face-to-face," or online or hybrid. The AACSB "snobbery" is definitely alive and well at many schools of business. ​

    RFV-A DBA in Finance, Accounting or something specific has more value that a general DBA. Yes, the DBA and EdD in leadership might be equivalent for some type of positions, both are ideal for a person wanting an administration career in a university setting where the doctorate is a good thing to have but not a must. Many of University administrators have EdDs so the DBA can be a similar qualifier for similar positions.

    AP: It is certainly much more difficult to find faculty with doctorates (either PhD or DBA) in accounting, finance, supply chain, etc. Interestingly, one of the undocumented parts of our research was that we actually found more faculty with DBAs in accounting, operations/supply chain and I.T. management than we found in management and general business, but since our study focused on that latter, we didn't use that particular DBA data.​
     
  12. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Not logical reasons but mainly emotional. I completed a DBA part time and work in Academia, I landed a full time teaching job but have never been able to move to a more based research position in spite of publications and research experience. The PhD graduates look down at someone that did not spend 5 to 6 years mainly due to an emotional reason. The traditional PhD holder went to hell, 5- 6 years of little money support, some were married and lived 5 to 6 years of hell to complete a doctorate so how they feel if someone like me comes and says, "You didn't have to do this, you could just complete your doctorate part time while making a full time salary and live a comfortable life". They simply think it is not a fair issue and your doctorate is not the same, they will give you a chance to become an administrator, lecturer, etc and any other job that normally only needs a Masters but you are not welcome to the big guys club of research chairs, large grant recipients, etc.

    There is also the snobery that people that completed GMATs, high GPAs, etc are better than those with just work experience and not impressive GPAs or GMATS. Most DBAs don't require high GPAs or GMATs.

    It is mainly a psychological issue, performance wise, people with traditional PhDs perform the same or less than a traditional DBA holder. It is all about motivation and attitude, but the emotional factor is there and hard to beat.
     
    chrisjm18 likes this.
  13. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    I think RFV has aced this description of one of the dilemmas in higher education. For years, I have boiled this down to one sentence: "I paid my dues, and you should, too." :rolleyes:

    Applying this principle to the difference between a Ph.D. and D.B.A. is a fairly new phenomenon. Historically, I've applied it to the difference between a traditionally earned Ph.D. and a non-traditionally earned Ph.D. An example of this here on DI that we frequently see is when Stanislav (who earned his Ph.D. traditionally from Florida State) trashes my RA Ph.D. from Union because, says he, you can't do a Ph.D. in two years part time in the subjects you hold your degree in.

    Nonsense. (Although he's wrong about the part-time thingey - I actually did mine in two years, but it was full time.) At the heart of things, however, is the underlying statement, "I paid my dues, and you should, too." I have found universally that those who use such an argument simply were not aware when they earned their doctorates that you could even do it the way I did.

    As much as I'm not a fan of today's DBA degrees (which I consider to be one-size-fits-all doctorates du jour), when it comes to teaching I do not, indeed, think there's any difference from a Ph.D. Because when it comes to teaching, as Ethel Merman would say, you either got it - or you ain't. Great teachers are great because they communicate well, regardless of any degrees they may or may not hold, and crappy teachers do con communicate well, regardless of how many degrees they may hold or how many courses in educational theory they may have taken.

    As always, I have spoken. Because I am a great communicator, whether you like it or not. Yes, I know, you find it hard to deal with the fact that you are inferior to me. But this, too, you will get over. :D
     
  14. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Wrong. I keep saying that you can't earn a non-traditional, effectively "online" degree and then laugh at people who did essentially the same thing. Gee, didn't they teach you reading comprehension in your PhD program? Then again, it was from Union. ;)

    Another surprising thing is how a seasoned communicator like yourself can't take a joke. We all know here that a non-traditional PhD is not lesser accomplishment compared to traditional one; it is different. It is not terribly meaningful to claim one of the two doctorates on different topics in different disciplines is better than the other, Earning degrees nontraditionally also requires different set of study skills; not everyone who earned a degree traditionally could have hacked it by DL, just like the opposite is true. But guess what: earning a DBA is also an accomplishment; absent other info you can't even say it is lesser than yours. If we establish that, we can discuss other matters, like whether or not schools over-produce DBAs and diminish it's utility.
     
    JoshD and chrisjm18 like this.
  15. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    Ever considered K-State's online/hybrid Ph.D?

    According to K-State, those who want to teach at an AACSB institution should pursue 15 or more credits in finance. https://global.k-state.edu/humanecology/personal-financial-planning/doctorate/

    Liberty University School of Law's Associate Dean and Professor, Tim Todd recently completed his Ph.D. in Personal Financial Planning at Kansas State University.
    https://www.facebook.com/53935480143/posts/10163510222055144/

    Dr. Todd is both an attorney and a CPA.
     

Share This Page