Online Doctor of Osteopathy DO

Discussion in 'Nursing and medical-related degrees' started by copper, Jul 5, 2019.

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  1. copper

    copper Member

    Very interesting! Obviously the DO internationally is considered more a chiropractor or physical therapist track versus the DO in the USA which leads to license as a Physician and Surgeon with the added scope of manipulation. Not sure if these degrees are recognized for any license in the USA and could certainly put the practitioner in legal "hot water" practicing in the USA! Interestingly, NUMSS operates a campus in Naples, Florida.

    Spain
    http://numss.com/
    USA
    http://www.numss.us/
     
  2. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I've never understood what this was supposed to be. Dr. Pourgol runs a legitimate manual DO school in Canada, but everything else he runs is either unaccredited or in some strange and murky affiliations. Pourgol claims to have partnerships with some medical schools, but at least one sent him a public cease and desist notice stating that they do not and never have had any affiliation with Pourgol or any of his schools. Having one legit school already, it would be very easy for him to fix many of the issues he has in terms of legitimacy, but the fact that he won't do that tells me he either doesn't understand what he's doing wrong... or he understands all too well what he's doing wrong.

    I would stay away.
     
  3. TEKMAN

    TEKMAN Semper Fi!

    It is a Chiropractor Office... https://www.google.com/maps/@26.2419102,-81.7686021,3a,75y,78.32h,93.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPm0KXre-ccAhk77DBegBJQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
     
  4. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    "Crawl-ins welcome" lol.

    If I were Pourgol, I would consolidate everything into the one legit school and build from there. Why operate unaccredited/unrecognized arms when you have a legit and licensed school operating in Canada?
     
  5. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    The mind of the millist is a strange one indeed. So strange that even having a legitimate licensed program is not enough to satisfy the millist's hunger. As you suggested LA, all he would have to do is merge everything into his legitimate Canadian school (shaving off a few programs here and there), and then try to expand on that. His Canadian program has had positive coverage by every major media outlet in Canada, and yet he decided to open a couple of unaccredited, shadowy schools alongside that?

    Strange world.
     
  6. Jonathan Whatley

    Jonathan Whatley Active Member

  7. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Reading his disciplinary document, geez, it's harsh. I don't know the extent to which he used the term "osteopath", but the CCO was PISSED. Hopefully it wasn't something of a misunderstanding because technically a manual osteopath is still an osteopath, just not at the physician level. If he was using that to pose as a physician then that should've gotten him into hot water. Either way, it looks like he was warned at least once prior to the hammer being dropped.
     
  8. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Yeah, definitely looks like a millist. Reading some of his paper trail is starting to give things more clarity.
     
  9. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Yeah well, manual osteopathy is not regulated in Canada, nor do schools teaching it. Pourgol's school seems substantial and not any worse than some competitors, and it's grads seem to get jobs and access to some private insurance reimbursements. So it can be called "legitimate". Calling it "licensed" overstates the extent of regulation it's subject to, though.
     
  10. copper

    copper Member

    The six month full time accelerated program for a Diploma in Osteopathic Manual Practice (DOMP) looks equivalent to a US massage therapy program. Actually, a massage therapy program may be close to a year in length to get licensure in the States.

    The advanced doctoral degrees sound impressive but are probably overkill! I can't imagine many US Bachelor or Master level trained and licensed Physical Therapists (PT) would pursue the unaccredited DPT from this school. In addition, licensed Physician and Surgeon DOs would probably pass on the PhD in Rehab Science as well. It's not worth jeopardizing one's reputation!
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
  11. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    Calling it licensed doesn't overstate it, it just accurately states it. The National Academy of Osteopathy is licensed with the province of Ontario (license #200607893) and the Canadian government (license #757053-8). I never said anything about regulation.
     
  12. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    Everything with massage licensure (pre-licensure exam) in the U.S. is tied to hours. Each state has it's own hours requirement for licensure with the exception of states that impose no regulations on massage education requirements:

    https://www.abmp.com/practitioners/state-requirements

    ^^ New York and Nebraska are at the top requiring 1000 hours which I think is completely ridiculous, even the states requiring 750 are asking for too much. I think 500 hours is more than enough and many states agree.

    Anyway, I wouldn't go near the NUMSS programs. It's just a bunch of unaccredited stuff that's going to cause a graduate to have to go through a mess in order to practice assuming they even could which I highly doubt.
     
  13. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    They are licensed as a business by Ontario Ministry of Government Services, which does not regulate schools as schools - so this does not bear on their legitimacy (old "legal vs. legitimate" debate, discussed ad nausem in this forum). Of course, it also doesn't bear negatively on them, as more meaningful licensing or regulation is not available to this kind of school in Ontario. They have a few competitors, all in the exact same situation.
     
  14. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    :)

    Yes, I think that's pretty clear. Being licensed as a business and being regulated are not mutual terms. I just pointed out that the Academy is licensed. I'm not really making any case about legitimacy vs. legality, although I can find no serious problems with that business in its nearly 10 year history so I see no reason to accuse them of something unsavory without evidence. But if that changes, that will be pointed out just like the issues with his NUMSS program which I think is a side hustle/money grab.

    There are a number of Manual Osteopathic schools in Canada and some have been around for 30 years or more. I would think if the Canadian government saw an issue they would deal with it.
     
  15. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    On the subject of massage therapy, the U.S. Career Institute has a program that's 425 hours online, and then 200 hours of hands-on training in Fort Collins, Colorado. This makes one eligible for licensure in most states, except the insane ones I've previously mentioned, lol. Price-wise, it's a pretty good deal considering some massage schools are charging a fortune. Up until June 26th they were offering 25% discount for the online portion and I'm told they may be doing it again at some point this year. A person may be able to get an even cheaper deal if they go with Straighterline or something similar for some of the online portion.
     
  16. Garp

    Garp Member

    This DO program is obviously not a US medical degree. They are clear about it but it is confusing. It is manual osteopathy (by distance learning). Seems odd. They offer DPT degrees and even a Doctor of Naprapathy degree. The DN degree has a funny statement that says (paraphrased) you can practice anywhere except the two US states (New Mexico and Illinois) and foreign country (Sweden) that regulate Naprapathic Doctors. That should tell you something.

    Seems to be "accredited" by a lot of Manual Osteopathic associations that have no standing. Not accredited anywhere (not the US, not Canada and not Spain).
     
  17. Garp

    Garp Member

    This guy (Nuzum) is one of their people (on Board of Governors). I believe he claims five doctorates. I do not believe any are accredited. Not sure he has any accredited degrees. If you Google there are interesting YouTube vids and articles. Not licensed as a Naprapath or Naturapathic doctor nor as far as I know anything medical. His Naprapathic Doctorate is from a school that sounds like the recognized one in Illinois but is not. He has a doctorate in Monastic Medicine (or something similar).

    https://www.drnuzum.com/about-dr-nuzum/
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
  18. Garp

    Garp Member

    More Nuzum
     
  19. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    A number of independent manual osteo boards are trying to establish uniform standards for manual osteopathy in Canada. So far they have been able to get the attention of the World Health Organization and set two benchmark levels, but since the field remains unregulated in Canada these benchmarks are only suggestions, so there are schools still awarding diplomas for schooling well below the WHO standard. Some Canadian boards are pushing for 6000 hour requirements, but that's been going on for years and hasn't penetrated the WHO yet.

    When the hammer drops and this becomes regulated in Canada, most of the Canadian manual osteopathy schools will die, because compared to the ones operating with the most stringent standards at or above the WHO benchmarks, the rest simply won't have the resources to operate.
     
  20. Garp

    Garp Member

    Numss really needs to get their Naprapathic degree approved in either Illinois or New Mexico. The DL component may well be good but it needs a clinical component that meets the requirement in those states.

    I do not believe manual osteopathy is licensed anywhere as a stand alone (US Canada). It suffers the same issue. There is no clinical practicum. No matter how good your classes are, how do you produce doctoral level graduates with NO clinical experience? Learned it all online. Then you set up a practice where you do hands on with patients who believe you have more practical experience than you do (and you stuck DO after your name).
     

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