North Central University Financial Aid System

Re: Assuming a semester is 16 weeks long...

This is interesting. Adjusting price and quantity is always the issue when maximizing revenue. My guess is your right in that it's money, and really just a reflection of the niche market NCU serves. Given a large population of self-funded learners blowing through courses in 4-5 weeks, I'll bet your right.

Their cash flow diminution may simply not have been offset by the marginal revenue associated with providing federal funding. I think part of this is that NCU really seems to want to be a graduate school. Folks at this level are older and more financially stable, on average. I personally think it's something that could come back and bite NCU in the butt, but dropping the federal funds (assuming it was voluntary) may seem to be the right way to go rather than have some bureaucrat in DC tell you how to service your market niche.

Given other schools doing the federal funds thing, NCU will be well differentiated as a niche player for sure now, given that they are going back to their old course delivery format. Got to give'em credit. They got guts........

I'm probably going to start NCU's PhD in Bus Admin within 60 days and am self-funded, so I have to say this is good news, as long as their butt doesn't get bit.

 

Re: Assuming a semester is 16 weeks long...

This is interesting. Adjusting price and quantity is always the issue when maximizing revenue. My guess is your right in that it's money, and really just a reflection of the niche market NCU serves. Given a large population of self-funded learners blowing through courses in 4-5 weeks, I'll bet your right.

Their cash flow diminution may simply not have been offset by the marginal revenue associated with providing federal funding. I think part of this is that NCU really seems to want to be a graduate school. Folks at this level are older and more financially stable, on average. I personally think it's something that could come back and bite NCU in the butt, but dropping the federal funds (assuming it was voluntary) may seem to be the right way to go rather than have some bureaucrat in DC tell you how to service your market niche.

Given other schools doing the federal funds thing, NCU will be well differentiated as a niche player for sure now, given that they are going back to their old course delivery format. Got to give'em credit. They got guts........

I'm probably going to start NCU's PhD in Bus Admin within 60 days and am self-funded, so I have to say this is good news, as long as their butt doesn't get bit.

 

To conjecture about the money making motives of NCU relating to their discontinuing the federal financial aide program without reviewing the motives of other big players in distance education including the University of Phoenix, Capella and Union, is of questionable value. As I mentioned, Capella charges approximatley $4,000 a term even if a student takes one course per semester! They also require residency periods that can cost many thousands of extra dollars for travel, lodging and food as well as for their seminar programs. Personally, I know of two Capella students who paid well over $60,000 and still did not complete their doctoral programs. Multiply $4,000 per semester by approximately 9000 students at Capella and then lets discuss the money making motives of NCU!

Then lets take a look at the University of Phoenix and their exorbitant tuition fees or the fact that Union Institute charges hefty tuition but will not accept any doctoral credits from other regionally accredited universities to be applied towards their doctorates. NCU accepts at least thirty graduate credits towards their doctorates and in cases where students have attained ABD status at another graduate school will allow them to receive up to 45 credits!

NCU is a great option for some prospective students. In relation to their money making motives they are no more or less suspect than their sister proprietary universities.

 

Excellent points!

This will work great for me. For my MBA I need 36 credits at $475/ch = $17,100.
Minus 10% for payment in full = (17,100 - 1,710) $15,390

No concerns about rising tuition costs etc.

For those that cannot pay in full:

How many other schools make this same offer?

A friend sent me some comments she is reading at the NCU student Web site. Says its a whinefest over there.

It looks like some people there are not thinking very logically.

Some are talking of leaving NCU and going to Phoenix for a doctorate in buiness. That makes a lot of sense...give up $475/credit hour LOCKED for three years for $645/credit hour that can go up at any time!

I hope these people go to work for my competition once they graduate!

Just my opinion

 

Carlosb,

Can you be more specific regarding NCU students' complaints that are resulting in their considering leaving their school to attend the University of Phoenix? Thanks.

 

As I mentioned I am getting this information second-hand. From what I am told some are considering Phoenix because Title IV money is available there.

Perhaps a NCU student that visits the Student site could comment?

Just my opinion

 

Sure, I can.

Basically, in the learner site, there is a forum folder, which has exploded with posts. There are usualy 12 or 20 posts a week, and now, in 2 days, over 200 new posts have been posted by learners who are screaming their brains out. Many are threatening legal action, writing letters to the president, attacking the administration, and trying to help each other find schools to transfer into. Basically it's a PR nightmare for NCU right now.

Even though I am upset and diheartened by these events, I will admit that the postings on the site are mostly being made by the same 20 or 30 people. Considering NCU has 5,000 students, they may not be representing the overall population very well. But they are making a lot of noise as they should be.

 

Binky,

Good morning. Are you going to try and fast track your degree now? I mean if you can clear the courses quicker than the 16 weeks, are you going to fast track it?

 

I do not know how many students are in the entire student body however I counted 33 students who posted in the NCU forums that were very upset.

Their main point is that it was done on such short notice they were not given any chance to make other arrangements. Additionally, many students are so deep into their program, they are not going to be able to transfer their work to another Ph.D. program.

My thoughts and prayers are there for my fellow NCU learners. I hope they can find a solution.

 

NCU learner forum

The NCU learner’s forum has been a popular place as a result of NCU no longer offering Title IV financial aid.

The following are a few quotes from the forum:

"I must agree that the way NCU handled letting people know about the 1 Apr termination of title IV was in poor judgment. An explanation needs to be given for the short notice. I personally like NCU and hope to graduate with them with my PhD; however, I can't say that I blame people for leaving. I wish people well in their future endeavors at Walden, Touro, Phoenix or wherever."

"The other schools are unfortunately more expensive, but here is a website to check out the EdD at Phoenix I just spoke to Barbara there and she was very nice and helpful! Union Institute and Fielding also have some very interesting programs."

"Kelly, while I do not have any legal advice for you, I can tell you that NCU's courses are accepted for transfer at some universities. I am finishing up a master's degree in counseling/psychology at the University of West Alabama (UWA); in fact, I have just enrolled in my last course with them. When I first enrolled at UWA in June 2003, they accepted six semester units (2 classes) from NCU toward my master's with them, which is the maximum allowable transfer credit for their particular program. I realize 6 hours is not very significant, but most graduate programs will accept very few credits toward their programs, if any, irrespective of where the prior credits were earned. Capella and Walden, for instance, both limit the number of units they accept for transfer, even if they are from Standford. Anyway, I hope you continue to look around and find an institution that will accept at least some of your credits."

"I will be leaving too. Bad thing is I just started. I chose this school because it participated in TitleIV. I am unclear as to why weekly attendance has to be in place for Federal Financial Aid to be available. I did my MS degree online, with Fed. Fin. Aid and no one took attendance. Seems odd to me. I'm sad to say I'll be gone from what seemed to be a great PhD in Education program. Now I hope the University of Nevada's PhD in Ed. (online) will accept the 2 courses I am taking."

"I too am shocked that NCU has decided to withdraw from the federal financial aid program. I really thought that this put us at a level with the better schools. Strange thing is I don't recall so many disgruntled students causing this change. The weekly contact was really no big deal. It only took a few minutes to enter a couple of lines in the course folder. I am concerned that there may be some other underlying reason for this decision? I am not sure at this point what I will do. Sallie Mae interest rates are much higher. "

"I spoke with the president today regarding the financial aid changes. I too came to NCU because of the financial aid access. However, after speaking with NCU today I am very pleased at how accommodating they are going to be. It appears they desire to work with us and will do whatever it will take to make it work. KUDO's to NCU for working through a tough situation and making it work for those willing to try...advice...talk to NCU and let them know your needs without the emotion...They appear to truly want to help make this work for everyone."

"Can anyone say breech of implied promises? My lawyer did. What a set back for the school. After accreditation Title IV is what students look for in a "real" school. What troubles me is WHEN they knew this would happen. How much money was collected knowing this was going to occur. I doubt someone woke up Monday and decided to say screw it to title IV. Guess it will come out in depositions?"

When will we learn as a lawsuit crazed society; lawyers do not always make things better. Maybe this person's lawyer can file a lawsuit in which their lawyer will get rich, put NCU out of business, and put the rest of the students out of a school.

The comments are understandable with the exception of those students looking for answers from their lawyers. I wish the best for all NCU students affected, however, Title IV funding takes one of NCU’s advantages away from them: flexibility. I, for one, liked NCU’s flexible semesters. I was rather upset to learn that the Title IV rules were being imposed on me since I was not receiving Title IV financial aid. Title IV is an all or nothing program: either all of the students are on board with the rules or the school is not allowed to participate in the program. Blame the government for all of the stupid restrictions placed on Title IV financial aid, which caused NCU to change their policy on Title IV; blame NCU for not giving students enough advanced notice and leave it there.

 

Simon's comments

I agree with you Simon, but your emphais on the "price" or tuition "rate" is not what I was trying to make a point about. I think NCU is a great buy and agree entirely. I'm simply saying that if a firm's stategy is lower price and more quatity to hit a total revenue number, that NCU could have been hurt by the requirement to have a 16 week interval. The velocity of sales (monthly sales) could have gone down, leaving them with the option of raising prices (tuition) to hit the same total revenue, or increase sales enough to cover the dimunition caused by reduced sales as a function of the 16 week rule. If only say 10% were on federal funds anyway (as subsequents posts may support), the 16 week thing may have been killing NCU's total revenue, and it took them a quarter or too to determine that the increased volume (more enrollment) did not close the gap.

Let's make no mistake with these DL firms. If they come up short, they go to commercial banks and venture capitalists for the cash, not the general assembly like public schools. When I said the decision was based on "money", I just implied that they needed to get back their total revenue lost due to lower volume. I agree, their unit pricing level (tuition per hour) is excellent and I intent to do their PhD for that reason.

Some of the bigger players, like U of P, would be killed by the loss of federal funds, becasue my guess is (and I don't know) that their total revenue is more heavily weighed to undergrads, who on average are more likely to need funding. Hence, the comment about NCU's niche being focused on the graduate learner, who has enough cash to bank roll the process without Uncle Sam.

 

Hmmm....

I think the actual number is higher then what NCU out of pocket payers to the university believe. I've have been getting all this week e-mails from people who have never posted a complaint to NCU board and it's going up higher each day. I fully understand the ones who are getting lawyers involved due to them not being able to use the payment options NCU has offered. I only hope this does not close down the university.

However, if it does it would be NCU own fault not the students they attracted with the FASA option. After all they did lie to them flat out about the FASA option. I feel they have a right to getting some sort of refund back. I for one was thinking about paying out of pocket to NCU but if they don’t do something soon to help, my fellow students out I might not stay.

Another thing NCU monthly payers should look out for is NCU using the excuse that due to the lose of FASA students they will have to do another tuition increase. I know that they posted that there will be no tuition increase for a 2005, but some how I don’t by that at all. I think the very thing that attracted so many people to NCU was its low cost. However, that seems to be slowly changing.
Anyway those who plan to stay look out for this happening and if dose someone please post a update to let everyone know!

Just my thoughts-

 

I can totally understand how any student would feel about having their financial source pulled from under them! So, the shouting, threats to sue and/or leave NCU are congruent with these feelings. However, from what I have heard, NCU appears to be working with all students effected by this change in obtaining alternative funding that is on par with their federal aid package.

We all know that when confronted by a major change that impacts on us negatively the first thing many people do is become reactive; expressing anger, threats and demanding action. However, when the smoke clears many of these students considering leaving NCU will come to the realization that Leaving their university, for instance, and transferring to similar programs at U. O P or Walden is not the answer. These schools are extremely costly, require periods of residency and have their own unique issues as does every distance learning university.

The fact that there are not hundreds of NCU students protesting seems to indicate that the extent of this issue is not as extensive as it initially appeared. I have a gut feeling that this too shall pass and that NCU will again be offering their very unique nontraditional degree programs that positions them as"tough" contenders amonst the big players.

 

Re: Hmmm....

 

Re: Hmmm....

Northcentral University is regionally accredited and is growing. I get a substantial amount of e-mails and PMs from prospective students who are very interested. This has not hurt the interest of new students. I doubt this will have the financial impact that would close down the university. NCU should have the financial wherewithal to thrive.

Northcentral University's tuition is at $475 a graduate credit hour and it is still lower than many other schools. It has not changed since late 2003. I doubt it is changing any time soon. Remember, the other thing that attracted so many people was the flexibility in course delivery.

 

Interesting Presentation:

file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/wilebm/Local%20Settings/Temporary%20Internet%20Files/Content.IE5/EPARELIJ/264,1,Slide 1

 

BinkWile - can't open the web site you provided...what does it say?

 

Can anyone share their experience negotiating alternate arrangements with NCU? Are they trying to be accommodating in light of their hasty notice about the end of Title IV participation?