NA Accreditation

The US federal government maintains its own list of schools eligible to participate in the governent's student financial aid programs.

I think that DETC accreditation might be more relevant in the case of private tuition-reimbursement provided by employers. There are probably many American companies out there that require that their employees who are seeking reimbursement study at schools with recognized accreditation. There may be no provision for foreign universities, since DL might not have even been envisioned when the company policies were drafted.

 

An ITT BSET is accredited by ABET/TAC and will qualify the holder to take the F/E exam in the vast majority of states.

The difference between the BSEET and an ABET/EAC accredited BS in Engineering is that most jurisdicitons require the BSET holder to acquire two years' worth of post graduate engineering experience before granting him an EIT certificate.

Once the BSET holder has his EIT, he is on an equal footing with every other graduate engineer for eventual P/E liocansure.

The only thing maybe wrong with an ITT BSET is its cost.

 

Yep, and I have the student loans to prove it.

 

First I will not " beat you up". I never said there isn't a place for ITT Tech graduates. What I stated was academically speaking if you compare a BSEET from University of insert local state university here that they require much academic work then ITT Tech does(e.g. English, Math and Science outside of applied discpline). ITT in many cases does offer excellent(and rather expensive in my opinion) technical education. The usefulness of ITT(as a vocational outlet) was never the point. As an illustration I will leave the link for Fairleigh Dickerson University's BSEET program http://fduinfo.com/u/require.php?1633-bs-eetup2
And Cleveland State University
http://www.csuohio.edu/undergradcatalog/eng/programs/engtech.htm

 

How important are the humanities? Truly?

I took a total of 2 or 3 English classes, sociology, environmental sceince, an intro to art class and a TQM class. Algebra, physics and two different calculus classes. Most of the English classes where writing classes. I have taken several other "basic courses" when I was younger and in a traditional college never really understood why I needed all of the history, and 5 different english classes that I took in a B&M. As for the beatings, I usually get it around here for paying to much, but it worked for me.

 

Another positive step forward for the legislation regarding transfer credit(s) between NA and RA school. It will only be a matter of time.....

Rep. Timothy Bishop attempted, but failed to have the federal mandate on transfer of academic credit removed.

House Committee Passes Reauthorization Bill on Party-Line Vote. Transfer Amendment Fails.
Washington, D.C. – After several years of failed attempts, the House Committee on Education and the Workforce finally passed its version of the bill to reauthorize the Higher Education Act of 1965. In an unprecedented departure from the history of bipartisanship that has historically characterized the Committee’s deliberations on federal higher education policy, the vote to approve the legislation was strictly along party line with 27 Republican members voting for the bill, while 20 Democrats voted against the bill and one (Major Owens of New York) voted present.

Of particular interest to AACRAO was an amendment offered by Rep. Timothy Bishop (D-NY), which would have eliminated certain provisions of the bill that impose a new federal mandate on transfer of academic credit. Regrettably, the Committee voted the amendment down by a recorded vote of 22 for to 26 against. The vote was significant because it was one of very few where members strayed from a strictly party line vote -Five Republicans voted in favor of the amendment and four Democrats voted against. AACRAO had issued a legislative alert on the Bishop amendment, and kept the membership aware of the issue. While the adoption of the bill gets the proponents of federalizing transfer a significant step closer to their goal, there is a possibility of a floor amendment when the bill moves to the House floor. In addition, the Senate has yet to unveil its version of the bill, which may well adopt a different approach to transfer than the one adopted by the House Committee.

Below is a list that details how members voted on the Bishop amendment.

Bishop Transfer Amendment
(Would strike the new federal mandate on transfer of credit in the reauthorization bill)

22 Aye; 26 No

Aye

Miller (D-Calif.)
Dale Kildee (D-Mich.)
Major Owens (D-N.Y.)
Donald Payne (D-N.J.)
Robert Scott (D-Va.)
Lynn Woolsey (D-Calif.)
John Tierney (D-Mass.)
Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio)
Rush Holt (D-N.J.)
Susan Davis (D-Calif.)
Betty McCollum (D-Minn.)
Danny Davis (D-Ill.)
Raul Grihala (D-Ariz.)
Chirs VanHollen (D-Maryland)
Tim Ryan (D-Ohio)
Timothy Bishop (D-N.Y.)
John Barrow (D-Ga.)
Mark Sauder (R-Ind.)
Charles Norwood (R-Ga.)
Bob Inglis (R-S.C.)
Tom Price (R-Ga.)
Kuhl (R-N.Y.)

No

John Boehner (R-Ohio)
Thomas Petri (R-Wisc.)
Howard P. "Buck" McKeon (R-Calif.)
Michael Castle (R-Del.)
Sam Johnson (R-Texas)
Vernon Ehlers (R-Mich.)
Judy Biggert (R-Ill.)
Todd Platts (R-Penn.)
Patrick Teberi (R-Ohio)
Ric Keller (R-Fla.)
Tom Osborne (R-Neb.)
Joe Wilson (R-S.C.)
Jon Porter (R-Nev.)
John Kline (R-Minn.)
Marilyn Musgrave (R-Col.)
Cathy McMorris (R-Wash.)
Kenny Marchant (R-Texas)
Luis Fortuno (R-P.R.)
Bobby Jindal (R-La.)
Charles Boustany, Jr. (R-La.)
Virginia Foxx (R-N.C.)
Thelma Drake (R-Va.)
Robert Andrews (D-N.J.)
Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.)
Ron Kind (D-Wisc.)
David Wu (D-Ore.)

 

Yes, a matter of time until RA institutions reject transfer credits from NA institutions for grounds other than accreditation. In the end, you'll not see any significant change.

By the way, why are you not happy with your NA degrees? I would think you would be proud of them. You could just as easily have chosen an RA degree program. Just like I could have chosen to drive a lexus (but then I would have had to pay more for it, since it is a higher quality car than my Nissan).

 

I'm perfectly happy and proud of my degree(s) and wouldn't have changed a thing. I had plently of opportunities to go RA with my undergraduate and graduate degree(s), but decided that NA was more affordable for the same degree.

And, I'd buy the Nissan hands down before I would ever buy a Lexus. First, a Lexus is a glorified Toyota (no offense to you Toyota owners out there). Plus, both cars achieve the same general purpose, it's get you from point A to point B. I don't need to PAY more MONEY for a fancy car, just like I don't need to PAY more MONEY to go to a fancy recognized school. Plus, I have no school loans to pay for. My degree was paid for in cash and not financed, just like my Nissan.

 

Oh, and I forgot to mention, my support of NA & RA transferability has nothing to do with the school(s) I've attended. My support is based upon principle only and to defend against discrimination.

 

Steve,

The link for these updates can be found here:

(http://www.aacrao.org/transcript/index.cfm?fuseaction=dc_ty&thearchive=6

 

I'm not buying it. Price is not the only difference between degrees. Excluding rigor, wich likely fluctuates from school to school and from program to program within individual schools, there are other elements to a degree that make it valuable. The reputation of a school or a program can add value to a degree. Schools have a right to protect thier reputations, and that of thier programs, by rejecting transfer credits from other institutions. This is not discrimination, no matter how many times you call it that, it isn't.

I'm from Connecticut and I could have finished my bachelors degree much sooner at Charter Oak State College, but I wanted a degree from UCONN, so I stuck it out at UCONN. UCONN doesn't accept clep testing or NA credits, and no amount of legistlation is likely to change that.

What I'm saying is , if you want a Yale degree, you've got to go to Yale (same for UConn, same for COSC, same for CSU).

 

I'm also not exactly sure how mandated transferrability might work.

Suppose I took "History of the Church in the Middle Ages" at school X and my new school, Y, requires a course titled "Western History III: the Middle Ages". Assume both are 200 level 3 s.h.

Now, these courses are likely going to cover virtually identical subject matter because the history of one IS the history of the other. Sooo...if Y refuses to accept X's credits, do I sue? And who decides whether the courses ARE the same or ARE NOT the same? The Department of Education?

I suppose that I could see a regulation that said something like this:

"No participating school may refuse to accept the transfer of academic credit from another school whose program is accredited by a DOE recognized accreditor solely on the basis that the latter is not regionally accredited."

But that wouldn't help much.

 

The whole basis behind the legislation is to give NA schools a fair shot at transferring into RA schools, hence, in the wording of the bill is, to not deny transfer credits SOLELY on the basis of the accreditation body, as long as the accreditor is recongized by the U.S. Dept. of Education and CHEA. The meaning behind the bill is to compare the class itself and not the accreditation.

Now, I know that some Ivy League schools and some highly regarded RA research schools probably won't measure up to some of the NA online or even RA online classes. Heck, most Ivy League and some reputable RA schools don't have online degree programs for this reason. So, trying to transfer your DL credits to these schools will probably be unsuccessful, no matter what transfer credit law takes place.

I believe some people think that because Harvard, Yale, Pepperdine, Vanderbilt are RA, that, well all schools that are RA hold the same rigor, quality and reputation. The fact of the matter is this statement is simply not true.

Your UCONN degree does not measure up to a degree from Harvard. Harvard is known for their Ivy League status, rigor and academic quality. But, because your degree is RA, do you honestly think it does?

Again, if you read about the bill, it's about comparing other factors of transferability other than accreditation. It will no longer be "we will only accept credits from a regionally accredited university." The RA schools will have to come up with more than just "RA only" for declining transfer credits.

The NA online schools and RA online schools are transparent in rigor and quality. Heck, most RA and NA schools utiltize the exact same professors, web platform and online learning format. Is RA online of higher quality than NA online? Please prove to me that this is the case because it is simply not.

Now, I agree that some RA B&M schools simply won't compare to the online format and rightfully so, should not accept credits that don't equal in academic rigor, whether the are RA or NA.

 

Illinois has a transfer program...

Illinois has a program, the Illinois Articulation Initiative (http://www.itransfer.org/) which seeks to assist students palnning to transfer schools prior to achieving a bachelors degree. As part of these program, generic courses (for example, History of Western Civilization 101) are reviewed for transferrability. Once they are accepted any school participating in the program must accept that course. Initially, our current governor was hot to expand the program. His initial enthusiasm has since died......

 

I'm not saying that RA puts my degree on par with any other school. But my degree is on par with an education from any other US public university, no question in my mind. That's not because UConn is RA, it's because UCONN's a damn fine public university. (Top 25 according to US News and World report, #1 public university in New England).

RA seems to be like a bachelors degree in that it's only a big deal if you don't have it.

 

I'm not discounting your UCONN degree. I'm sure it was and still is a great school, as is, CSU is a great online for-profit university.

And for the record, I've graduated from two RA schools in California (WASC) for my reserve and full-time police academy. I've also attended many other RA schools for advancement certifications in my career field (law enforcement).

So, in ain't no big deal that I attended an RA school and it ain't no big deal that I didn't get my BSBA and MBA from an RA school. If I had my bachelor's or master's from an RA school, I would still defend NA schools.

I've said it once and I'll say it again, it's the principle of the matter and I will not tolerate disrcrimination on any level whatsoever.

 

And I'll say once and again: What you are talking about is not discrimination. The priciple of the matter is academic institutions being free to protect the integrity of their own programs.

 

ACTUALLY...at least at the bachelorate level...I am not so sure that a degree from, say, Eastern New Mexico University in English ISN'T on a par with Harvard or Yale, at least in terms of educational quality. I mean really, what can be done, more or less, to Shakespeare at Harvard that can't be done at ENMU??

Nuclear engineering? Astrophysics? MAAAYYYBBBEEE...but I have a feeling that a BSEE from New Mexico Tech probably prepares the student about as well for a life in engineering as a similar degree from MIT or Cornell. A transistor is a transistor.

The REAL differences show up in research facilities and opportunities, including the chance to work with prominent scholars.

And in fact, the emphasis at such schools is on research, not teaching.

 

Obviously, you're not reading this discussion thoroughly enough to continue this bantering. I'm glad your UCONN degree suited you well and I wish you the best in your future endeavors.

And for the record, institutions WILL be able to protect the integrity of their programs with this proposed bill. Read about it and you'll learn about it (hopefully)