Masters of Ministry

When it comes to ministry credentials, I think it's helpful to find a program that matches your ministerial goals; obviously if you'd like to preach within the Southern Baptist Convention, getting trained to be a Tibetan Buddhist Lama is not going to be very helpful. And vice versa.

I'm not picky about the theological tradition of schools when it comes to purely academic credentials (Potchefstroom's Dutch Reformed tradition is about as far as you can get from mine), but I think ministry credentials are a different story.


Peace,

Tom

 

Sometimes it also depends on what you want to learn.

When I took a Jesuit course in the Pentateuch at Spring Hill College, what I wanted was a course that would explain the literary constructs, theological implications, and historical importance of certain passages in the Pentateuch; what I got was a very detailed course on the documentary hypothesis and lots of information on ancient Jewish politics. Now, I happen to agree with the basic premises of the documentary hypothesis, but that's not what I wanted to learn; I wanted a more comprehensive version of what I got in my local Reform Torah study group a few years ago. In a Jesuit course on the Pentateuch, that's not generally what you get. Ditto Christology; I *loved* the Jesuit Christology course, but a Baptist or Reformed Christology course would have bored me to tears and told me very little I didn't already know.

Besides, a ministry credential is supposed to build you up in the faith, not try to convert you to another one; the idea is that anyone pursuing ministerial credentials already has a pretty solid idea of what he believes, and wants to know how to translate that belief into action. It's different from a pure theology degree, where you really *should* be challenged;
the goal of the credential is different, so the choice of school is more important.


Peace,

 

I did not read that in Bill's message at all. Nonetheless, I find it perfectly consistent that a Baptist, for example, will want to study within a Baptist framework, a Catholic within a Catholic framework, ad infinitum. In short, yes - that is rational, whether you like it or not.

"Selve" serving? But we digress . . . You seem to be missing the point, Ken. Some people go to school precisely to reaffirm their values. Some go to learn more about those values. Others, like you perhaps, go to engage in debate and discourse. One goal is as valid as the other.

Wait a sec, sport . . . Lest you think that I am biased toward Bible colleges, let me remind the masses that I am both gay and liberal. But, having taught at two very conservative schools for six years, I can attest to the fact that they do engage in scholarly learning. In other words, Fundamentalists are both fun and mental.

Moreover, you will find the same kind of bias at a secular state university as you will at any conservative Christian school. The orientation may be different, but the bias is just as strong. George Carlin put it best - it doesn't matter if you're on the left wing or the right wing, both sides are trying to shove their agendas down other people's throats.

The main reason I am replying to this post at all is because of the question you have asked here: "What is wrong with arguing with professors..."

Let me answer that as a former professor: We don't get paid to argue with people who want to be a pain in the ass. As a teacher, I would say that almost every class has at least one such pain in the ass - someone who thinks he (or she, although it usually seems to be a guy who fits this role - women are far too intelligent to make asses of themselves) is a know-it-all, who gets his rocks off on arguing instead of learning, who disrupts the entire process for everyone, and who usually knows squat about the subject being discussed.

Yes, there are millieus in which arguing is constructive - debate, persuasion and, in the field of religion, apologetics. But if you want to go into, say, a systematic theology class at a pervasively denominational seminary and argue with the professor in class, you are as obnoxious as the wacko who stands on a street corner, yelling at the top of his lungs while waving a 90-pound Scofield Reference Bible.

Do you want to debate religion? Cool - go to a secular state university and be a pain in the butt. But if you go to a denominational school, regardless of doctrine or ideology, the answer is yes - ou are going for indoctrination, not just learning. You are going to learn a specific way of believing whatever it is they believe, and you will find as much resistance to preaching liberal doctrine at a Fundie school as the Fundie will if he attempts to preach conservative doctrine at a liberal school.

Now, we can talk about egalitarianism all day long, but when the rubber meets the road, the teacher is paid to teach and the students are paying to learn. When I teach a class in any field in which I am an expert, I am the expert (sorry, campers, no reference to Exo. 3:14 intended), not the students. I am paid to pass that expertise onto the students, not to have the class disrupted by the token jerk. We can engage in dialogue, discourse, and even structured argument within teh context of the field. But if you were to come into the class merely to challenge the essential notions of the subject before others have had the time to lern those essential notions, you should expect to receive - and would deserve - the left foot of fellowship.

Fini.

 

Good point!

Besides, a ministry credential is supposed to build you up in the faith, not try to convert you to another one; the idea is that anyone pursuing ministerial credentials already has a pretty solid idea of what he believes, and wants to know how to translate that belief into action. It's different from a pure theology degree, where you really *should* be challenged;
the goal of the credential is different, so the choice of school is more important.


Peace,[/B][/QUOTE]

 

When I was teaching theology I tried to be more "socratic"... more of a question and answer diologue rather than a "I am the master, sit at my feet and feed my ego" type of scenario.


But if you were to come into the class merely to challenge the essential notions of the subject before others have had the time to lern those essential notions, you should expect to receive - and would deserve - the left foot of fellowship.

Fini.[/B][/QUOTE]

 

I believe I said that I hold them to a higher standard, not in higher esteem.
What I mean is that I expect more from a Seminary. Just as one would expect more form a specialist than on would from a general practitioner.

I think that should be closed minded.
The closed mined thing was a joke, hence the .
Eve was open minded. Look where it got her. (another joke, bad, but added for levity))
There is a difference between being closed minded and discerning. While I am open to listen to new thoughts, I am discerning as to where I receive them.

Very true. Which I believe is why, as Steve stated earlier, conservatives are more open to allowing liberals to believe what they want.
I know that what God said is true. When I am in agreement with Him, I don't have to defend my position. If a person wants to disagree with God, that is up to him.

Back to the topic at hand.
I am still open to suggestions for an accredited, conservative Seminary with an extension program that might accept me into their M.Div. program with a Bachelors from Bethany or with an Associates and allow me to enter on probation.
Thanks for the responses I have received. I am especially thankful for the suggestion of Thomas Edison State. If I do not find what I am seeking, that is certainly a creative avenue to pursue and it will help me if I choose to be bi-vocational as a Pastor.

 

ATS will not accredit a program without a residency component so a 100% non-resident program is out of the question. You should look into what Prairie Graduate School offers... accredited, inexpensive and has an extremely good reputation amongst the Bob Jones crowd.

I am still open to suggestions for an accredited, conservative Seminary with an extension program that might accept me into their M.Div. program with a Bachelors from Bethany or with an Associates and allow me to enter on probation.
Thanks for the responses I have received. I am especially thankful for the suggestion of Thomas Edison State. If I do not find what I am seeking, that is certainly a creative avenue to pursue and it will help me if I choose to be bi-vocational as a Pastor.[/B][/QUOTE]

 

Thanks, I'll look into Prairie Graduate School.
I do expect to meet some residency requirements. Even Bethany had some for it's Bachelors.


------------------
Bill <><