John Bear introduces Henrik Fyrst Kristensen of Knightsbridge University

I didn't say those things. Please don't put your own words in my mouth.

I've already quoted your own words in an earlier post. There's no need to do it again.

I'll simply repeat what I wrote in my last post:

I think that there are some excellent and valuable programs out there that differ widely from the Heriot-Watt model. I'll continue to suggest them to others whenever I think that's appropriate.

I agree that most models (including H-W's) can be criticized constructively and can be made better. But I think that it's excessive to insist that Degreeinfo denounce all DL universities that differ from one person's preferred methodology. And I think that it's insulting to attempt to link all the other methodologies with "dumbing down", weak syllabi and the like.

 

Kevin: Yes, I like that model.

Bill: I asked you a simple question. Could you answer it, please?
In the case of online "ongoing class assignments, projects and participation", how do you know who (the enrolled student or a friend or relative or paid agent) is making this effort?

 

Hi Bill

Apologies. Mea Culpa. It was not in your post, but Andy's. To be laboured with somebody else's 'sins' is indeed inviduous. Linear debates often produce this error. Sorry.

But the point I made still applies to Andy's post. Soft exam regimes promote cheating and do not elminate it down to the level found in final exams of the kind we are discussing, but that is for Andy to defend.

However, what you did say, and repeat is: "I think that it's excessive to insist that Degreeinfo denounce all DL universities that differ from one person's preferred methodology. And I think that it's insulting to attempt to link all the other methodologies with "dumbing down", weak syllabi and the like."

Fact: I have not suggested Degreeinfor do any such thing as "denource all universities"; I do suggest that contributors denounce exam methods which in DL are questionable and which make DL vulnerable to a loss of credibility in its attestation of fitness role. I certainly do not expect them (though there is a freedom of opinion) to encourage without comment on the dangers of unproctored exams in this context. If you are in DL you ought to take notice of this problem.

If to give my professional opinion that "dumbing down", weak syllabi and the like" are unsuitable for DL degree programmes is "insulting" that suggests a low threshold to being insulted. I am sceptical of their value in on campus programmes but accept that other academics hold different views for their institutions. Taking a global view - the entire world and not just USA - even these on campus regimes are producing unfortunate incidents, attracting more and more publicity. Even worse, because these incidents are tolerated - an "everybody is doing it" mood prevails (the example of the Canadian Schools Authority countermanding their rules on Internet downloads, hence making such behaviour the norm) - it may be where our campuses are going whatever we say about it. That would indeed be unfortunate.

Finally, as someone who has been involved in this debate on exam methodologies since the 1960s (heady days) I do not lightly express views on "dumbing down" tendencies in Higher Education.

All other methodologies are not associated with "dumbing down".
But "dumbing down" is widespread, along with "grade inflation", including in some of our world class campus institutions. They will have to deal with the problem. My concern is with DL and its exam regimes. I am only asking you to recognise the problem for DL and to do what you can about it in your institution.

 

Is there a Henrik or is the post about systems of examination?

 

Let's see. Look at the new thread.

 

Henrik just set a new record. Not even the first post in, and he's already in a fight. I agree with the posts he hasn't made, but only partially.

 

Professor Kennedy wrote:

I've heard other factors affecting the DL world instead, such as lack of student face-to-face interaction and professor-student.
You're the first one to bring up the whole proctored examinations, and IMO, its taken way out of context.

I think we nead to look at other factors that contribute to education rather than focusing solely on giving students proctored exams.
Certainly, Herriot Watt is not without its critics. I know you are very proud of it, but please, a school that only requires
9 courses for an MBA, with barely any admission requirements with nearly a whopping 10,000 students in their MBA program (this is more than any DL school I know other than UoP)is bound to be criticised.
In fact, it resembles a more reputable Uk version of University of Phoenix. I also hear that there is barely an attrition rate, so this means that either the Edingburgh school is doing a wonderful job education their 10,000 mba army or it is tailor made for everyone to pass. Do you think it would be fair for me to accuse it of using "degree-mill" tactics? Wouldn't you think that it appears very tuition driven?

Proctored exams and reputation? please, UoP uses proctored exams frequently but I don't see their reputation being any better than other schools mentioned in the board.

I have to agree with Billy Dayson that your comments about DL come accross as either as an unsubstantiated paranoid ideation or as an advertisement for Herriot-Watt. You make generilized indictmens without naming any institutions or giving any citations to support your claims.

-S

 

Here you heard wrong. The attrition rate is quite high. At one point, John stated that the pass rate per exam in North America was 65-70% (higher in Canada than in U.S.). And others have said that the overall completion rate is about 30%. Some have suggested that this estimate is too high because it ignores people who start the program but never take an exam (i.e. denominator is underestimated). Others have suggested that it's too high because it doesn't fully account for people who take many years to complete the program (i.e. numerator is underestimated). In any case, my own feeling is that the H-W MBA may well be the toughest DL MBA program there is.

I'd also like to poke at your comment that the program requires "only 9 courses." The point that is sometimes missed is that many of the courses (especially the mandatory ones) are much more significant than a 3-credit semester course in the U.S. They are more akin to two (or in some cases even three) U.S-style semester courses.

 

Oxpecker,

Are you still actively working on your own H-W MBA?

 

Sulla

Nice try! Start a scrap over rumours you have heard. Won't join in, thank you for the invitation.

Facts (only for the record, not that they matter - a bit like the sex life of a rhino; only of interest to antoher rhino):

over 1,000 completions a year, graduating MBA; several thousand completing Certificates and Diplomas in Business Administration

exam failure rate about 25 per cent per subject (two attempts only, after which withdraw from programme)

average time to complete 4 years - many take 5-7 years

average age of DL students 38

all past exam are available for anybody to consult and to judge for themselves how 'easy' they are

Opinion:

I value your contributions to the future and credibility of DL, a far more important concern of mine on this Board than any institution that any of us belong to.

Have a nice day.