JD/CPA weighing LL.M. vs. DBA

Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by DeeD, Mar 31, 2019.

  1. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    Not saying you're wrong, honestly. But does the AACSB publish numbers for placement in tenure track positions?
  2. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    I'm a lecturer in a school of accountancy and currently doing an MS in accountancy through the U of Illinois (top 2 to 3 in accounting), hoping that that plus an MBA and JD and some experience teaching accounting courses for non-majors and tax and other accounting CPEs to professionals will get me into the club. I'll let all of you know how it works. When I told my chair my intentions to get on the tenure track at my current R2 AACSB school, he said "You better publish a LOT."
  3. foobar

    foobar Member

    FTFaculty alluded to this but I think it should be made explicitly clear that AACSB considers a graduate degree in taxation to be a terminal degree when teaching tax courses.

    There is one JD/MST and one JD/LLM-Tax tenured faculty members at my AACSB-accredited institution who are classified as SA for all student credit hours they teach in tax.

    For many reasons, a PhD or DBA in accounting is not a suitable credential for teaching tax courses. Accounting dissertations with tax topics tend to address the financial statement or market effects of tax policies or provisions rather than focusing on the tax law as taught in accounting programs.
  4. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    You know, I didn't really allude to that--but I should have. It's true that there are masters in taxation that are considered terminal degrees by the AACSB, such as the MST or LLM. I think University of South Carolina has an MST or MST-type program (not DL) and there are of course quite a few LL.Ms online (but only two, G-Town and NYU, would interest me--though there's something to be said for the U of Alabama's, and I do know an academic with a TT job teaching taxation at an AACSB uni who got his LL.M online from Alabama). So in that respect, the LL.M may be more beneficial for the OP. I should've said that up front, that's my bad.
  5. DeeD

    DeeD New Member

    Thanks for all of the comments and feedback. I had to take a step back and really think about what I wanted. Two colleagues have been encouraging me to go DBA, but the idea of 3-4 years of school plus dissertation ... I just struggle with that. And borrowing $120,000... Just not what I wanted to be doing at this point.

    My current department already considers me SP for all of my classes, because I'm published. No one, yet, has questioned what I'm published in, but I hope that won't be a problem when our accreditation rolls around next year. I'm close on a second article that's on a R&R request and would clearly be an industry publication, not law review, so even that issue should resolve itself in the short term. The LL.M. may make me SA for tax, but I'd still be SP for the rest of my classes, though I suppose other departments may have other standards.

    Being the numbers person that I am, I ran financial scenarios doing what I'm doing - decent base, overloads and summer work, plus a side consulting business that I can maintain if I'm not studying for an LL.M. or DBA vs. DBA which will drop my current income because I won't have time to consult and will borrow six figures before I see any increase. What I determined was that I may be a bit ahead financially and retirement-wise going with a DBA, but its not a lot. But the negatives - how picky can I really be in finding a position? If I'm pulled out of my current state retirement system, any additional retirement benefit I had planned on may disappear. The DBA program seemed less attractive after the financial review, and I'm not sure I want the stress and pressure of research.

    So the DBA is pretty much out, though I did apply to one program. It's start date isn't until late fall and I haven't heard if I was accepted.

    The LLM is not necessary under my number crunching, but I'm still considering it. The LLM would give me a path to TT in my current department if we have an opening, which is possible in the next few years. I've looked at NYU, Georgetown and U of Miami programs; all are in the $60k range. I've also looked at WashU and Villanova. Honestly, I'm not sure I could get in to the first group. I've been accepted to WashU; their program is $60,000. I should get accepted at Villanova, and their program is $37,000. WashU is a better law school, but I'm not sure it's worth $27,000 more. WashU also only offers 13 different courses (3 required, 6 elective), while Villanova has a broader group of 33 (6 required, 3 electives). Both can be finished in under 2 years, and probably closer to 15-18 months. I can start both of these programs this summer or I could defer for a bit if for some reason I reconsider the DBA.

    So I'm going to focus on what I'm doing now, solidify my consulting biz, make an adjustment in my publishing to more researched-based articles, and continue to contemplate the LLM until I have to make a decision on acceptance.
  6. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    Seems reasonable, DeeD. Best to you, and you know where to reach me if you ever want to collaborate on research.
  7. Taxing

    Taxing New Member

    The program is offered by the University of Florida and endorsed by the AACSB. The University of Florida provides names for most of the alumni from the PDBP at https://warrington.ufl.edu/post-doctoral-bridge/alumni/. Most recent placement is stated and a little time on google can find their current placement.

    I have no idea if the AACSB keeps track of placement into tenure track positions out of any program. I did not assert that it does.
  8. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    I know you didn't assert that. I wasn't trying to be snarky. Just was honestly wondering. I have one former colleague who got a non-TT lecturer position with the bridge certification and two current colleagues who got TT positions with the bridge cert. The first teaches business law with the bridge cert and didn't really need the bridge, my guess is he was trying through the cert to work his way into teaching biz courses that would normally require a PhD when he just had a JD, but then when none of those opportunities worked out, stayed with the b-law. He makes close to $120K/yr, so it's not like he's hurting in his current gig at my uni. The second is a genuine bridge success story. Got a PhD in an unrelated social sciences field, then did the bridge, then got a TT position teaching biz at my uni. Doing quite well now. Now this person is a rather special case, with a PhD from an Ivy, so maybe that was the thing that put them over the top. But still, at least for one person, it worked. I was just wondering how much buy in this bridge thing was getting from universities, was it getting people into TT jobs for which they wouldn't otherwise qualify. I only know of the one, with another getting a mere lecturer position where the bridge cert may or may not have been a factor and the other for whom the bridge probably had no real effect. So a mixed bag based on my tiny sample.
  9. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I am also skeptical of this program. Most positions call for a PhD in business from an AACSB accredited school and not a post doctoral certificate. I'm not so sure if Universities would honor this certificate but my guess is that if someone already has a PhD in a non business field from a University that has an AACSB accredited business school (e.g. PhD in Engineering with a post doc in Operations or PhD in Psychology with a post doc in HR) and shows up with this certificate, it might work but a person with a PhD from a low ranked school with non AACSB accredited business school might not be able to sell it unless it comes with solid publications.

    In any case, if the point is to qualify for a faculty position at an AACSB accredited school, technically one could do it with solid publications in business and a solid PhD so the post doctoral certificate might not be necessary.

    Also, it was mentioned that it has good placement at teaching schools. Teaching schools in general have much lower salaries than research schools so perhaps it is just training to overcome shortages in teaching fields in demand such as finance or accounting.
  10. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    I'd be interested to see evidence that this actually works (even if it comes from Gators). For the record, I have a PhD from a non-business ABET-accredited department from a school that has AACSB accredited, ranked business school. Moreover, I don't mind "teaching" schools and am seriously contemplating taking a swing at such positions, in Computing OR Accounting, next year. So yeah, does this really work?
  11. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    With your technically non-conforming PhD that is probably worth every bit as much or more than the average AACSB PhD and the soon-to-be (or already?) masters in accountancy through London, you're the perfect candidate for the bridge program. There is a steady stream of accounting positions on the TT coming available every year. We're trying to fill our second this semester. I recently visited an even larger university and they were trying to fill their third. Starting accounting salaries at AACSB unis range from $140 to $220K. Once you get there, you can start building other revenue streams, such as side consulting work. Even I, a mere lecturer, am about to move into the five-figure per year range on the side consulting. Some of my colleagues make a LOT more. I have a colleague who gets $4K per speaking appearance with all expenses paid and has given up marketing these side jobs, because he can barely handle all the inquiries he already gets. This is in addition to making a very nice six-figure salary on a 9 mo contract as an associate prof in the School of Accountancy.
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019

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