Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Emrah, May 15, 2010.

  1. Emrah

    Emrah member

    What is Juris Doctor ? Some say it's same as bachelor in law some says it's something like doctor of law? Which one is true? My mind confused :S
  2. AUTiger00

    AUTiger00 New Member

    It stands for Juris Doctorate and I believe most consider it a terminal degree, though some law schools do offer further training.
  3. KariS

    KariS New Member

    Th juris doctorate (JD - not to be confused with juvenile deliquient (but very close in conrtext)) is the first level degree (in most of the US), followed by Master of Law (LLM) and Doctor of Law (LLD). 30+ years ago it was often called Bachaelor of law (LLB).

    Most places it can be earned with an AA/AS degree or equivalent level of education).
  4. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    Until about 50 years ago, the standard law degree in the US was the Bachelor of Law (or Laws), LL.B, typically earned by 3 full-time or 4 part-time years of study following another Bachelor's degree. A growing number of lawyers felt that it was unfair that they should "only" get a second Bachelor's degree, while other professionals were getting a doctorate for comparable amounts of study. Some feel that another factor was that during the time young men were being drafted to fight in Vietnam, people with doctorates were often excluded. And so the doctorate in law became increasingly popular, and is now the first law degree earned by nearly all lawyers in the U.S. Some law schools offer further training in law, often resulting in a Master's degree in law which, improbably, is actually a more advanced degree than the doctorate. Only a small percentage of people with a J.D. (fewer than 10% I'd guess) typically expect to be called "Doctor."
  5. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    Dr Bear, I recall reading some years ago (I believe that it was in one of my editions of Bear's Guide) that when law schools changed their degrees from LL.B. to J.D., they sent letters to alumni offering to convert their existing LL.B.s to J.D.s for a "processing fee". I work with someone (an attorney in his 70s) that actually received one of those letters. I always though that it was a brilliant strategy and a nice cash cow (after all, who is going to sue the attorneys about their degrees?) I'm kind of surprised that universities like Oklahoma, Brigham Young, Arizona State and Utah State did not do the same thing when they changed their Ed.D. programs into Ph.D.s (without making any substantive changes in curriculum).
  6. obecve

    obecve New Member

    Oklahoma State converted my Ed.D. program to a Ph.D program without making any course changes. A number of my staff who have the same degree have a Ph.D.;I would not turn in my Ed.D. for a Ph.D. because it has served me well (and the doc robes look better....grin).
  7. Here in Australia, the JD is probably closest to a LLB. It is usually offered to graduates of other disciplines who want to study law or enter the legal field. It gives the right to practise law. When I was looking at information about one of these degrees recently, it was made clear that it wasn't really a doctorate and graduates were not entitled to be called "Dr." I have considered this type of degree myself.

    I have seen another degree here called a Doctor of Judicial Science which apparently really is a doctorate- very confusing I think. The LL D is often an honorary degree in this country. In that case, as with other honary degrees, the holder can ask to be called "Dr".
  8. b4cz28

    b4cz28 New Member

    So can a JD be called Dr. ?
  9. b4cz28

    b4cz28 New Member

  11. agent445

    agent445 New Member

  12. Here is something that interests me. Just understand that I am talking about the Australian situation here. Most medical practitioners in Australia have a Bachelor of Medicine/Bachelor of Surgery which is actually studied as one course, most vets have a bachelor's degree as do dentists. Medical practitioners have always been called "dr" with the exception of surgeons in some states. Dentists and vets have more recently begun using the title. Yes, you will get the odd one with a Ph.D or some other doctorate but that is the exception. As I said, JDs here are not called "dr". In my case, I will have to wait until I get my PhD until I can tick "dr" on forms and coupons. Oh, well. I think that in some countries, all graduates are called "dr".
  13. agent445

    agent445 New Member

    I don't about Australia specifically, but generally speaking, I think the concept is being made into something more complex than it should be.

    If the degree itself is a doctorate, as in "Juris Doctor" or "Doctor of Jurisprudence", then the person who holds such a degree should be entitled to call himself doctor. It's ridiculous that someone can be "Juris Doctor" and then not be allowed to refer to himself as such! It makes no sense. It's strange logic to award a doctorate to someone and then tell them they're not a doctor. Well, yes they are. If they're not, then the institution should be forced by regulatory authority to stop calling the the relevant degree a doctorate degree.
  14. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    I agree with Mr. 445. At least two of the Caribbean medical schools were founded by American lawyers, who called themselves "Doctor" because of their J.D.

    And it gets even sillier with regard to honorary doctorates. While many recipients already have earned doctorates, quite a few do not, and some of those call themselves "Doctor," and expect others to do the same. Billy Graham (who has an earned Bachelor's degree) and Polaroid inventor Edwin Land (who had no degrees) are among those people.

    Canadian author Stephen Leacock wrote that shortly after he received his Ph.D., he was on board a cruise ship. When a lovely young lady fainted, the call went out, "Is there a doctor on board." Leacock says he rushed to the captain's cabin but he was too late. Two D.D.'s and an S.T.D. had gotten there before him.
  15. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    But your proposed solution raises issues as well. Here are some examples:

    (1) In the US, the historic "Bachelor of Laws" degree was renamed as the "Juris Doctor" degree. However, there are many older attorneys -- including several Supreme Court Justices -- who hold LL.B. degrees, instead of the renamed J.D. degrees. No one doubts that the two law degrees are equivalent -- yet based on your logic, one provides the title of "doctor" and the other does not. Does this make sense?

    (2) The switchover from LL.B. to J.D. occurred in the US, but not in other English-speaking countries, such as the UK or Canada. No one doubts that a Canadian LL.B. degree is equivalent to a US J.D. degree; in fact, there is currently a joint LL.B./J.D. degree program offered by US/Canadian law schools in the Detroit/Windsor area. Yet based on your logic, the US law degree provides the title of "doctor" and the equivalent Canadian degree does not. Does this make sense?
  16. mattbrent

    mattbrent Active Member

    Just for sake of discussion and curiousity, why does holding a doctoral degree grant the individual the ability to refer to himself as doctor?

    I have a masters degree. Can I refer to myself as Master? :) Master Brent sure has a nice ring to it, haha.

  17. b4cz28

    b4cz28 New Member

    I like Master better then Doctor..lol
  18. Premiere

    Premiere member

    You'd have to be extremely pretentious to insist on being called a doctor because you have a J.D.
  19. novemberdude

    novemberdude New Member

    Canadian common law schools are in the process of switching over. I have lost track of how many have switched, a sample includes Toronto, Osgoode, Queens, Ottawa and UBC (I think). There have been no changes to the programs in question attributable to the switchover and the utility of the JD is exactly the same as the LLB, so in Canada at least the degrees are completely equivalent.

    From what I understand a few Australian schools have now gone the JD route as well. Not at all so far for England.
  20. agent445

    agent445 New Member

    No, what you're saying doesn't make sense.

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