Is it actually better to go offshore???

Is it DL or is it the school... would a DL research degree from University of Wales be treated the same... I don't think so!

 

Hence my point that in the US the last hurdle needs to be crossed whereas in Britan it already has been.

 

That along with fear. I think that much of the professoriate is deathly afraid of distance education because of the effect that they see it having on their working conditions. Most of the stories in the 'Chronicle' seem to have a labor subtext.

They are afraid of the market. If market forces had more impact on program selection, we might see fewer programs on deconstructive literary theory and French psychoanalytic feminism. They are afraid of the end of lifetime tenure and the increasing use of adjuncts. They are afraid of programs like Heriot-Watt that dispense with faculty entirely, as well as the coming computer courseware that will do much the same thing.

The coming changes will be an earthquake in the teaching profession and it is scary. I think there really are significant quality issues raised here as well, and it is hard to see how they will eventually resolve.

 

This would indeed be sad, since this is such a flourishing discipline!

Russell

 

The highlights of the Chronicle's article are as follows:

1. "She earned her doctorate just three years ago and was rejected for tenure in 1998 by McNeese's own College of Business. She was later granted tenure by the university's College of Education[/]."

Comment: One man's meat is another man's poison (African adage). She was rejected by the school of business but she was hired later by the school of education in the same college. This is an irony. I am pretty sure that some students from the school of business may have taken elective courses that were taught by Dr. Daboval.

2."As dean of enrollment and institutional planning, Ms. Daboval has worked with the departing provost and knows the job well, says the president."

Comment: She is very qualified for the job.

3. "A lot of good ol' boys around here have never been in a department run by a woman and can't stand being bossed by one," says Mr. Wood.

Comment: It is not about quality, it is about the old boys network.

4.. "The Louisiana university's Faculty Senate voted down the petition."

Comment: She still has her job and the petitioners lost woefully.

Ike

 

FWIW, I *have* heard British degree programs disparaged by US faculty. Rightly or wrongly, many people perceive British degrees as being "easier" because in most instances one has to complete "only" the dissertation. I recall one such instance of disparagement in which a woman who held a US PhD was informed that a colleague was earning a doctorate in England. A discussion ensued about the relative worth of UK and US doctorates. The woman sniffed, "Well, all I know is that I had to work my a** off for mine!"

------------------
Michael Wilson

 

In everyone's zeal to defend DE degrees, I think many of you have neglected to mention some of the major reasons why the British distance degrees are held in higher esteem than the US ones:

1) With the exception of the Duke MBA, there is a lack of first or second tier DL degrees in this country. Contrast this with the UK where UofL has a number of DL programs. I'm still looking for a US MBA program with similar costs, prestige and rigour to that present in the Warwick DL MBA program. AMBA, AACSB, has a thesis, some residence sessions.....

2) It's much easier to defend credits based upon "previous learning" if the method of accessment is [very difficult] tests. The method UofL (or even the HW MBA) use for credit accessment does not preclude the use of previous learning, just requires the student to demonstrate that the learning has been retained to the level of someone who recently took the course. The fact that identical tests are used for residential students is icing on the cake since it adds to the credibility of the tests (as opposed to the CLEP exams which are not accessed credit by any good B&M schools that I know of).

3) In the case of the Provost in Louisiana: She had a doctorate in Business for less than a year (do the timeline--she's had it for 3 years and was rejected in 1998) and went up for tenure--I'm not suprised she didn't get it--either she had much too little research done in the year, or more likely had been there for a number of years and took her time finishing her doctorate (I know of a grad of a top 3 school in his field who didn't get tenure b/c they where unimpressed that he took so many years to finish his dissertation). Also tenure is usually awarded on the strength of post doctoral reseach as it is a accessment that the candidate has continued to, and will likely continue to do research. As to the fact that she got tenure in education--I'll just say that justified or not, departments of education are not generally respected for their research within most Universities that I've been affiliated with. One note: Mr. Wood from the english department, is actually Dr. Wood.


-me

ps. In the academy there is , a number of PhDs I know did significant portions of thier doctoral work (ie the entire dissertation phase) away from the University awarding the degree. This is most prevalant in the humanities where support is absent and thus graduate students are compelled to get jobs to support themselves while doing reseach and writting.

 

Sorry--my "ps" was mid-edit. Suffice it to say I see much less aversion to DL per-say than may of you do. Many humanities PhDs in the US spent a significant portion of the dissertation phase away from the academy.

 

I respectfully disagree with you. Degrees from the UK are well respected here in the US. It is bad to pick and bash accredited DL schools unless there is a reason to do so. It is my sincere belief that people who read DE discussions on this board should know DE issues better that the average guy on the street. It is possible that some traditional academics are sincere about their perceptions of DE, in which case they could be referred to as ignoramuses, or insincere, in which case they should be called wimps. They are cowards because they are afraid of facing the present reality. DL is a reality. It has come to stay whether they like it or not.
What is surprising on this board is that some posters who ought to know better than the average guy still echo the same opinion of the ignorant general public. As pioneers, should we lead in promoting DE or should we lead in condemning accredited DE schools?
I suppose we should opt for the former. I think of all the current DE students as pioneers of DE because we are still facing the prejudices (although to a lesser degree) that confronted DL graduates decades ago.

Ike

 

Ike,

I didn't mean to imply that I agreed with the sentiments expressed by the woman I described in my previous post, and I certainly hope that I didn't perpetuate her attitudes by repeating her words. My intent was to point out that even well-educated people can hold ill-informed opinions.

For the record, I am a great believer in the viability of distance learning, and have earned one degree and most of another through DL. The overarching lesson of my adventures in higher ed. has been that the design of the instruction, and not the mode of delivery, is what determines the quality of an educational experience.

At one time, I had considered pursuing a UK doctorate, but found the prospect rather intimidating. Unlike my colleague with an American PhD, I understood that British doctoral candidates are expected already to have mastered the research skills that their American counterparts learn through coursework. The production, essentially on my own, of a 100,000 word dissertation was also daunting. Since I need quite a bit more structure than that, I've opted for a Nova EdD.

Hope that clears things up.

Cheers,




------------------
Michael Wilson

 

Whoops: one more corrections:
instead of CLEP, I meant SUBJECT GRE. There are many fine schools that will give some credit for CLEP exams (although the top schools less so than second and third tier IIRC)

 

I don't pay a great deal of attention to comments from individuals who don't know what they are talking about (i.e. individuals commenting on British Phds who have never seen a British disertation).

The comments I received regarding both the US DL schools I mentioned, as well as the British ones, were from individuals who had at least some material knowledge of the schools and programs involved.

 

Exactly my point, so... is a top tier DL degree from UoL, Warwick or Heriot-Watt more valuable than a degree from Touro, Nova, Phoenix, etc... I am thinking so.

 

No Lewchuk. Those people are individuals who thought that they have material knowledge about the US DL schools and their programs. But unfortunately, they don’t. Like I stated in my earlier posts, people that harbor such thoughts are ignorant of what DL is all about.
Ike

Ike