Inexpensive Masters of Legal studies

I don't see the value in having a JD from an unaccredited school if you're not going to practice with it. You can't use it to teach, and you can't use it for jobs that require a graduate degree from an accredited school. I agree with Bpreachers in that one would have to explain why he or she has a JD and has never been admitted to the Bar anywhere. There is also the inconvenience of having to travel to California to test if you do want to be admitted to their Bar.

 

I see your points, but there actually is a market for JDs that have little or no practice value -- including both accredited and unaccredited degrees. Concord Law School, for example, offers an online "Executive JD" degree that is not bar-qualifying anywhere (not even in California). And it has been accepted by their regional accreditor.

What is the point of a non-Bar-qualifying JD? According to Concord:

We may or may not agree that this makes sense, but I understand that Concord issues dozens of "Executive JD" degrees every year. The concept clearly works for some people who are interested in legal education, so it seemed like it was worth discussing.

 

This is good advice for most people. But as there's exceptions to every rule, the exception applies in my case. I received the non-bar JD degree from NWCU back in 2009. It's been a help in my business dealings and has made me a better communicator with attorneys that handle my company's concerns. I now know how they think and I can communicate in a way that they understand and appreciate. It's funny that the motivation for undertaking my studies with NWCU was from being screwed over by "professionals" in law and real estate. Now I have become better at telling when someone's pulling my leg. And yeah, I guess I could've just studied on my own but I needed the structure of a degree program. I just know it worked for me.

 

These are the same reasons why colleges market the masters in legal studies. It's meant for people who don't want to practice law, but want legal knowledge. A regionally accredited masters in legal studies is going to be much cheaper than the Executive JD at Concord. Then, you would have to deal with employers wondering, "What the heck is an Executive JD?"

 

That's my point. If you want legal knowledge, but don't need a bar-qualifying degree, then colleges have two options for you. Option 1 is the MLS. Option 2 is the non-traditional JD. Since both degrees can serve the same purpose, if you are considering one, then you might want to consider the other as well.

On average, Option 2 will cost more than Option 1. That shouldn't be surprising, because Option 2 includes more legal study. For example, the AMU MLS is 36 credits, while the Concord EJD is 72 credits.

But in some cases, Option 2 may be cost-competitive. For example, the NWCU JD discussed in post #15 above is only about $16,000. The NWCU is cheaper than many MLS degrees, yet it would cover more material.

Option 2 has some drawbacks, and isn't necessarily the right option for everyone. A non-traditional JD may cost more, may lack regional accreditation, and may be confusing to employers.

However, it's clear that Option 2 is available, that it can serve the same market as Option 1, and that it works for some people (see, for example, post #24 above). Given these facts, it seems like Option 2 is worth mentioning to those considering Option 1. In the same way, Option 1 would be worth mentioning to those considering Option 2.

 

I just read on a previous thread that California State approved schools may have to seek national accreditation to issue diplomas. It will be curious to see what impact this will have on State Approved correspondence law schools.

 

You probably mean this thread, which indicates that the California Bureau for Private Postsecondary Education (BPPE) may require all of the schools that it licenses to seek recognized accreditation.

I may be wrong, but I suspect that the potential impact on California correspondence law schools would be: none. The reason is that these schools get their authorization to offer JD degrees from the State Bar of California, rather than from BPPE. They may not need to register with BPPE (unless they also offer non-law degrees).

If I'm wrong, then some of the best-known California correspondence law schools (like Concord or Taft) would still be unaffected, because they already have NA or RA.

 

As of this week, there is now an Option 3. The University of Arizona has announced a unique new B&M degree program, the Bachelor of Arts in Law:

The BA in Law will not be bar-qualifying. However, UA law majors will be eligible to apply to UA law school as juniors (rather than as seniors), and will be able to complete the BA+JD track in 3+3 years, rather than in 4+3 years.

We are probably a long away from a fully online ABA-accredited JD degree. However, it would not surprise me at all if DL schools followed UA's lead, and began to introduce fully online "BA in Law" degrees. If so, we might see ABA-accredited law schools accepting online law majors into 3+3 programs.

 

This is certainly a game changer. The beauty of this is that this will be a good stand alone degree and surely by the time the undergrad completes the program they'll know whether they want to pursue law school or not. And it opens the door a crack for the ABA to consider accrediting online programs. I'm not going to get my hopes up too much but this certainly is a move in the right direction. Excellent find CalDog.

 

ABA Standards don't actually require a Bachelor's degree for admission IIRC. An applicant needs just 90 semester hours credit toward a B.A. to qualify as a "regular" applicant. But the vast majority of ABA schools eventually began to require a B.A. or B.S. in hand. My thinking here is that the school doesn't need to run this program by the ABA to institute it.

Personally, I agree with the California Bar Examiners that an A.A. or A.S. is sufficient background to study law. Five years of post-secondary education is enough.

 

Yeah, here it is:

"Standard 502. EDUCATIONAL REQUIREMENTS
"(a) A law school shall require for admission to its J.D. degree program a bachelor’s degree, or
successful completion of three-fourths of the work acceptable for a bachelor’s degree, from
an institution that is accredited by an accrediting agency recognized by the Department of
Education."
"(b) In an extraordinary case..." (NB-refers to the occasional well-qualified special applicant)

 

How is this any different than other 3+3 programs? There are already a lot of them. Since there are already a lot of them, I don't think this will change anything. University of Arizona is bragging about offering the first BA in Law in the country, but it doesn't have any more utility than a BA in Law and Society or Paralegal Studies.

3+3 Albany Law
3 + 3 Law Program
Welcome to the 3 + 3 Law Program | College of Liberal Arts | Oregon State University
https://www.usfca.edu/admission/undergraduate/freshman/3-plus-3-law-degree-program/
https://www.law.uiowa.edu/prospective/3_3
3+3 Accelerated Program | Albany Law School: A New York Law School
3-3 Law Program, Fordham College at Rose Hill (FCRH) - Fordham University

I could go on all night there are so many 3+3 programs.

 

It's true that there are already a number of 3+3 programs out there. But this seems like the first undergraduate program that is tailored specifically for students who want to accelerate the path to the JD.

It's likely that a high percentage -- quite possibly the majority -- of undergrads who enroll in this program will leave after 3 years to go to law school. If so, that would be unique for an undergraduate program.

And those who decide not to go the early JD route, and to stick it out for 4 years of undergraduate law study, may get specialized legal training compable to an MLS. If so, that would also be unique for an undergraduate degree.

Admittedly, we will have to wait and see how the program develops. But it wouldn't surprise me at all if we see more "BA in Law" programs in the future, both online and B&M.

 

There are already BA programs in Legal Studies and Law and Society that are in 3+3 programs.

 

OK. Maybe you could list some examples, so we can see how they compare to Arizona's BA in Law.

 

I already provided a link above to Western New England University which offers the Law and Society major that can be paired with the JD. Suffolk University offers an Applied Legal Studies option.
Applied Legal Studies Pathway - Suffolk University

 

Those are both rather small programs. According to College Navigator, WNEU issued 4 bachelor's degrees in legal studies in 2012/13, while SU issued 14. Of course, there is no assurance that all of those grads went on to 3+3 programs. It seems likely that UA (which has more than 30,000 undergraduates) has much bigger plans than that. In fact, UA says that:

WNEU's program is taught by political science faculty. SU's program is clearly based on a paralegal training program (it includes "Fundamentals of Paralegal Practice" and a "Paralegal Internship"). These students won't see a real law professor until they get to law school, in the fourth year of their studies. UA, on the other hand, claims that

WNEU and SU, as well as their law school partners, are small regional schools with little to no national reputation. UA is a large flagship state university with a Top 50 law school. Fairly or not, UA's move will attract more attention and interest.

In summary, UA apparently plans to put law professors from a highly ranked national law school directly into undergraduate classrooms, potentially with hundreds of students; then they will be giving those students the option to transfer into that highly ranked national law school. This may or may not be a good idea, but it is different from what WNEU or SU are doing.

 

I don't see how any of this leads to an online JD. Even if schools start offering a Bachelor of Law online, I don't see how this will lead to an online JD. That seems like a stretch. If there is ever an online JD, it'll be because of hybrid programs getting approval. We already have one from the William Mitchell College of Law. That's the real game changer. A 3+3 program and a bachelor's degree that covers law are not innovative.

 

In the short run, it won't. As I stated in Post #29 above, "We are probably a long away from a fully online ABA-accredited JD degree."

It isn't about "schools" offering legal study at the bachelor's level. As you point out, that isn't new.
It's about "a highly-ranked ABA-accredited law school" offering legal study at the bachelor's level. That is new.

ABA restricts law schools from offering JD degrees online. However, that restriction does not apply to other types of legal degrees. That's why law schools can offer online LLM degrees.

Now let's suppose that ABA law schools start to offer pre-JD legal degrees online (the BA in Law). They already offer post-JD legal degrees online (the LLM). If ABA-accredited law schools can successfully teach pre-JD legal degrees by DL, and can successfully teach post-JD legal degrees by DL, then maybe it becomes harder to argue that the JD itself can only be taught through B&M.

A bachelor's degree that covers law is innovative when it is offered by a highly-ranked ABA-accredited law school. How many others can you name ?