Ignorance and regional America...

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Carl_Reginstein, Jul 21, 2005.

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  1. I don't know how many of you have lived in multiple locations in the U.S., but I have had the pleasure (or pain, as the case may be) of living in Wisconsin, Florida, and now West Virginia. I've also visited just about every state on business / pleasure trips at one time or another.

    My observation is that those states that are economically backward tend to be (a) highly religious, (b) intolerant of other perspectives, (c) republican, and (d) at least 30 years out of step with the rest of global society.

    Wisconsin was the best place to live (so far) - though it is somewhat of a backwater, it has a progressive tradition of common sense and fair treatment of individuals that go way back to the early days of the socialist movement in America. Although this has its downside too - over-regulation of every aspect of life, including ridiculous laws about a "cooling off" period before remarriage after divorce, etc. Comes from the socialist tradition of "we know best".

    Florida was also a great place to live. Completely laissez-faire in its attitudes, at least in South Florida. However, there were pockets everywhere of religious extremism and intolerance in the more backwards, poor areas of the state. In brief, Florida was a hotbed of cultural mixing - Midwest (in the center and west coast), East Coast/Carribean (in the south), and Redneck (in the northern panhandle.

    West Virginia? Well, this is the interesting one. People here are very nice, very decent to one another. But there is a right-wing wacko church and/or billboard on nearly every corner. All the cable companies stack up their listings with these extremist church programs (as opposed to porn in South Florida) and people around here handle snakes and all that crap that they think the Bible told them to do. They are rather proud of being ignorant, and are so ignorant that they don't even realize what the rest of the world lives like. All this within 200 miles of major population centers and the very center of civilization (NYC, DC, Philly, even Chicago is not that far off).

    Commentary and discussion would be appreciated. I'd like to hear your views to my somewhat biased opinions of these regions.
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Very well stated! Kudos!
     
  3. Mr. Engineer

    Mr. Engineer member

    All opinions are biased - that why they call them opinions.

    The more I travel around the country, the more I realize the sameness. I thought Florida was a very odd place - a hot bed of corrupt politicians from nearly every ethnic group and laws which defy reason.

    The only place I didn't like - Central Texas and Alabama. Very redneckish behaviors - almost like a yahoo on every street corner.

    Favorite places:

    California. I have been all around the world and IMHO there is no better climate anywhere. Yes, we have the very occassional earthquake - but compared to the Tornado's of the midwest, and the Hurricanes of the Gulf States, it is a piece of cake.

    Boston. Nothing better than co-ed watching in the Commons.

    Austin: 6th Street. Need I say more (just ask Jenna)
     
  4. DTechBA

    DTechBA New Member

    Let's see....

    I find it hilarious that after you wrote the above you mention West Virginia as a backward hick state. Let's see, they have a Democratic Governor, both US Senators are Democrats, 2 of the 3 US Representatives are Democrats and both houses in the state legislature are controlled by the Democrats. Hmmm......
     
  5. Re: Let's see....

    I never called them a "hick state", although some do. I also said that they were an interesting example because WV seems to defy patterns given what you have pointed out - Democrats everywhere, but they are far more conservative in their social outlook than most republicans and damn near communists in terms of their anti-business stance. Which probably does a lot to explain why WV is still decades behind the rest of the country.

    The worst thing that happened in the Civil War was the splitting off of WV from the rest of VA. Had VA remained intact, there never would have been the horror that is WV in terms of poverty, exploitation, and backwardness - instead it would be a prosperous tourist wing of a much larger state today.

    Did you know that someone tried to sell the ENTIRE state of WV on eBay a while back (as a joke)? Well, that might not be a bad idea in reality. There is little worth saving here. Every house and building should be razed (with few exceptions), the population re-educated in the ways of modernism, and just start over....

    (tongue in cheek.....)
     
  6. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    New Mexico, where I have lived for the last 23 years, might be an exception.

    It is a VERY religious society, largely because a majority of our citizens are either of Mexican descent or are immigrants from Mexico and the rest of Latin America and are therefore culturally Catholic, however seriously or otherwise they take the religion itself.

    We are also the poorest or next poorest state in the Union (thank God for Mississippi).

    Yet, racially and religiously speaking, anyway, New Mexico is the most tolerant "it's none of my business" places I've ever lived or visited.

    (A middle aged black man of my acquaintance said that he loves living here except that he's afraid that his children aren't getting the kind of life experience they need to survive as black Americans. He meant, they don't feel any hate. So if they leave here, they will be in for a nasty shock.)

    New Mexicans in general are friendly in a very practical sense; you won't be left stranded on our rural highways no matter who you are.

    We have our problems, to be sure, but last time I went to Washington State and went shopping, I felt very uneasy. It took a bit to realize why I felt that way; there were only WHITE faces around me and only English was being spoken! Weird, hunh?
     
  7. Mr. Engineer

    Mr. Engineer member

    With the exception of Rio Rancho (which is Intel's hell hole), I like NM. Poor? Perhaps in Las Cruses as that is pretty close to the other hell hole they call El Paso. I thought that Santa Fe and Taos was pretty nice.
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I don't think this holds true anymore. Mississippi used to be the poorest state in the Union and Tunica County was the poorest county in the nation.

    However, Tunica County now hosts riverboat gambling and is prospering economically.

    I think Arkansas is poorer than Mississippi. Speaking of which, Lt. Gov. Winthrop Rockefeller, nephew of Nelson, withdrew from the GOP gubernatorial primary. He has been diagnosed with a blood disease that may lead to leukemia.

    This is so tragic. He's a very good man and would have been an excellent governor. I was also hoping he would be Mitt Romney's running mate in the 2008 presidential election. A Romney-Rockefeller ticket would have been hard to beat.

    So, I guess it's now Romney-Rice or Rice-Romney.
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    What a sweeping generalization considering some of those incredibly educationally and economically deprived Third World countries.

    Read between the lines, folks. Carl is saying all of us who live in red states and are Republicans are ignorant, uneducated, Neanderthal buffoons!

    Tisk tisk. Shame shame!

    :( :( :( :(
     
  10. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Santa Fe and Taos ARE nice so long as you don't have to actually LIVE there or attempt to make a LIVING.

    I lived in Santa Fe for five years...had to go to Albuquerque to buy ANYTHING that wasn't bad artwork or a tourist trinket.

    Las Cruces IS a pleasant university town. I hope you visit us sometime.

    El Paso is a hellhole, I'm afraid, but what can you expect from Texas?? ;)

    What's wrong with Rancho Malario? :)
     
  11. Tireman44

    Tireman44 member

    Young Nosborne,

    Hey now. What would you expect from Texas? On my. That was a tough one. Austin is beautiful and San Antonio is gorgeous. I love the hill country as well. Houston....well....... never mind. Galveston....again...never mind. Dallas is not bad. Fort Worth, it is ok. Don't trash the whole state. lol. :D
     
  12. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Rancho Malario???
     
  13. Re: Re: Ignorance and regional America...

    Jimmy, what I'm actually saying is that I find that there is a strong correlation between under-educated, ignorant, and under-exposed (to modernism) populations in certain of our US states with a tendency towards extremist religious beliefs, very conservative political beliefs, and a certain "no nothing" pride in their own ignorance.

    I mean seriously. Some of the people that I've met here in WV have never even been on an airplane/flight anywhere - not even to Orlando or Las Vegas - and these are well-heeled West Virginians with Masters degrees, etc. But they know NOTHING about how the rest of the US functions and the highly secular nature of urban life.

    Those who are less well off than my above example attend "Church of God of Prophecy" type churches, engage in snake handling, and drink strychnine.

    I'm sorry. That's just dumb. That's just ignorant. That is just plain nonsense in the 21st century world we live in and in which America needs to be the shining beacon on the hill for all peoples who wish to be enlightened. How are we ever going to defeat Islamic fanaticism when we still have vast pockets of our own population who believe that the earth was really created in 6 days, is about 6,000 years old, and that God ordered us to handle "serpents" in order to demonstrate the power of faith?

    Answer me that if you can....
     
  14. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    You don't LIKE snakes??
     
  15. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Re: Re: Let's see....

    No, the worst thing that happened was that a whole lot of people were killed and maimed.

    Would the counties that are now West Virginia have been better off had they not split off? I doubt it. There are a number of Appalachian counties of Virginia that are more like their West Virginia counterparts than they are like the rest of the Old Dominion. And in the last few decades, the Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia has blossomed, largely as a result of its having become a bedroom community for Washington, D.C. and Baltimore, Md.

    -=Steve=-
     
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: Re: Re: Ignorance and regional America...

    Hi Carl,

    Perhaps I was a bit "knee jerk" in my response but I have seen what you describe in every state I have lived in and visited. In the state of Michigan, you will find people who look, act, and think as if they moved there from Tobacco Road, and I don't mean the one in Augusta, GA.

    In DePew, NY, I met a few people who were more racist than anyone I ever met in Mississippi.

    I have heard the "N" word here in Indiana more than I ever did in nearly 20 years of living in Mississippi and Louisiana. Indiana still, much to my dismay, has the largest KKK organization than any other state.

    In Illinois I met a woman who said she burned her Tarot cards, crystal balls "When I become a Christian and the demons flew away laughing and waving at me."

    Georgia was the most backward, rednecked state I have ever lived in.

    And remember, the states you describe for many, many years were comprised mostly of Democrats, not Republicans.

    To my knowledge, Carl, the Church of God of Prophecy is not a snake handling church. I agree, snake handlers do so out of ignorance of rendering certain passages of Scripture.

    By the way, does anyone remember the story of the journalist who went to Tennessee to write a scathing critique of snake handlers? He was so impressed by these people's faith, he actually joined them. I understand he later left.


     
  17. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    I think that broad regional comparisons are probably too blunt an instrument to tell us very much. They don't generate much beyond stereotypes. It's probably more enlightening to examine individual neighborhoods the way that political and marketing consultants do.

    There's a very interesting book by Michael Weiss entitled 'The Clustered World'. In it he divides the United States into 62 socio-economic neighborhood types and describes them in detail with all kinds of survey data.

    The thing is that most of these 62 types are found in all parts of the country, though they may be more prevalent in some areas than in others. In order to create a picture of a larger area without oversimplifying it, you would have to create a mosaic of these clusters, and then weight them by population.

    Examples include:

    'Blue blood estates'. Elite suburban super-rich families. Predominatly white and Asian. College graduates. White-collar professionals. Predominant ideology - moderate Republican. Anti-affirmative action, pro-abortion rights. Fourteen times as likely as the nation as a whole to drive Jaguars. Here in the SF area these would be places like Hillsborough and Los Altos Hills. Average home prices well above $1 million.

    'Gray power'. Affluent married or single retirees in sunbelt cities. Owners of simgle or multi-unit housing. Predomantly white. College graduates. Predominant ideology - conservative Republican. Favor reducing size of government and restricting immigration, pro-health-care reform. Bal Harbor FL, Palm Desert CA, Hilton Head SC, Sarasota FL.

    'Big Fish, Small pond.' Small-town executives. Single family housing. Predominately white. Predominant ideology - moderate Republican. Support capital punishment, favor welfare reform, oppose affirmative action.

    'Middleburg Managers.' Midlevel suburban white collar families. Single family housing. Predominantly white. College graduates. Professionals and managers. Predominant ideology - moderate independents. Favor increasing military spending, tax reform and legalizing marijuana.

    'Bohemian Mix'. Inner city singles neighborhoods. Multi-unit rental housing. Racially mixed. Predomiant ideology - liberal Democrat. Pro- gay rights. Favor legalizing marijuana. Concerned about racial tensions. Parts of West Los Angeles, San Francisco and Manhattan.

    'New Ecotopia'. Rural blue collar, white collar and farm families. This is "where baby boomers surf the net by the heat of a wood burning stove". Mostly college educated but mixed employment. Predominately white. more common in New England and the Pacific Northwest. Predominant ideology - moderate Republican. Favor tax reform, legalizing marijuana, welfare reform.

    'New Homesteaders'. Young middle class exurban families. Single family housing. Predominately white. Some college, white collar. Predominant ideology - conservative Republican. Anti-abortion, pro-"family values". Charles Town WV (home of AMU).

    'Big city blend'. Middle-income urban immigrant families. Single unit renters and owners. Predominately Hispanic and Asian. Highschool graduates, some college. White and blue collar. Predominant ideology - liberal Democrat. Favor increasing immigration, higher school funding. Garden Grove CA.

    'Shotguns and pickups'. Downscale rural blue-collar families. Single family housing. Largely white. High school educations. Predominant ideology - conservative Republican. Key issues are "family values', restricting immigration and school prayer. More common in the South.

    'Latino America'. Hispanic families. 2-9 unit rental housing. Grade school and high school. Blue collar and service workers. Predominant ideology - liberal Democrat. Favor gun control, increased school spending, reducing racial tensions. Cicero IL, much of Los Angeles.

    'Agri-business'. Rural farm town and ranch families. Single family housing. Predominately white. High school educations. Predominant ideology - conservative Republican. Favor "family values', restricting immigration, reducing size of government. Fort Dodge KS.

    'Mid-city mix'. African-American families and singles. 2-9 unit owners and renters. Highschool, some college. Service and white collar. Predominant ideology - liberal Democrat. Favor AIDS education, labor unions, defusing racial tensions. East Orange NJ, Compton CA.

    'Smalltown downtown'. Older singles and young families. Multi-unit rentals. Predominately white and Hispanic. Highschool, some college. Blue and white collar. Predominant ideology - moderate Democrat.

    'Southside city'. Poor African Americans in smaller Southern cities. 2-9 unit rental housing. Single parents and singles. Grade school and high school. Blue collar and service workers. Predominant ideology - liberal Democrat. Favor reducing racial tensions, improving public educaion, AIDS education. Petersburg VA. Opa-Locka FL, Greenville MS.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 21, 2005
  18. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    "Middleburg Manager" yuck. That's me, I'm afraid. I WISH I were "New Ectopia" but that's hard to do here in New Mexico...who wants a fire when it's 106 outside?
     
  19. DTechBA

    DTechBA New Member

    Ignorant are republicans...

    Hmmm, I can go south of me to a very Democratic county that has very high high school dropout rates and very low college completion rates and find people who can barely speak English. It is the same in most inner city neighborhoods and the people there are not generally Republicans. Your generalizations are not backed up by the facts. Ignorance has no attachment to politics......
     
  20. w_parker

    w_parker New Member

    I have to agree with DTechBA. I have lived all over the world actually, the military has moved me 9 times now. I am not sure what study you made, or what quantifiable data you have used to make your opinionated generalizations.

    If you are a democrat, you probably are not going to enjoy a republican speaker or rally, regardless of the message. I think you expect to find "uneducated zealots" in the red states, so that is what you are going to see.

    It is too bad that you feel so superior to the poor, unlightened souls in the "red" states. In case you did not know, there are many in Europe and other parts of the world that do not think too kindly about any American, regardless of the color of your state.

    William
     

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