Harvard Extension vs SUNY Empire State

I see both of them as "adult completion degrees from well established B&M schools". That's not a bad thing by any means. They both award solid and serviceable degrees. But if somebody is really in search of a prestige program, then they need to attend college full-time, on-campus, in the strongest and most selective program that they can gain admission to.

Personally, I think that I favor SUNY ESC over Harvard Extension. That's because SUNY ESC simply is what it is. It isn't strutting around. I sense that many prospective students are fascinated by Harvard extension because of the 'Harvard' name. (This thread illustrates that.)

If we don't specify particular programs or know very much about their academic reputations, then all we have to go on is the name of a university and that's going to be a shallow and superficial criterion at best.

 

I wouldn't be ashamed of a Harvard Extension degree, not at all. It's a fine and respectable degree that I'd be proud to have.

What I would be ashamed of is if I tried to make myself a free-rider on the Harvard reputation, if I tried to exploit the 'Harvard' name so as to claim an edge over people who graduated from supposedly 'lesser' programs.

If I was making hiring decisions and if somebody freely revealed that they had a degree from Harvard Extension, then I'd have no problem at all. I have a DL degree myself and I'm tremendously interested in adult continuing educxtion. I'd be impressed that the individual took advantage of this great opportunity and continued studying.

But... if the individual withheld that the degree was from HES and instead tried to puff the whole 'Harvard' thing, then I'd have concerns. I'd worry about their general truthfulness and about their ability to get along with other employees. I'd worry about ego-issues.

In other words, it isn't so much the HES degree that concerns me, it's how the HES graduate subsequently uses it.

 

I have to chime in here, even though I haven't finished reading all the posts. I have very little time today, but I think it's important to weigh in. This is a one-sided opinion, as I know little about SUNY.

First of all, I live in the Boston/Cambridge area, born & grew up here. Don't know how important that is, but I'm quite familiar with both Harvard and their extension school. Hey, I even used to 'pahk my cahr in hahvid yahd' (that was years ago, before they went and made it resident-only. , grumble, grumble...)

To everyone who has an opinion, make sure you really check out the Harvard Extension website. There's lots of info, including the fact that one can actually take a certain percentage of regular Harvard U. classes. They also have a requirement that one MUST take a certain amt of classes w/Harvard professors, too. Also, the very first class one must take is a writing class, which will be sure to enable the student to have the info on how to actually successfully write for their level of classes. My own CLCC (Crappy Local Community College) didn't do that, so I drowned in a couple of classes there.

Watch a few of the lectures that are online. I watched a few, and while I found one boring professor (but, hey, macro/microeconomics isn't exactly interesting to me in the first place), many others made subjects seem fascinating - subjects I would normally run away from (like the sciences - and math, of course, )

Harvard Extension exists to enable older students to experience the Harvard learning experience. I think that the Harvard name alone be a turn off for some hiring managers (dare I say this) because of reverse snobbery (I've seen this w/some professors in that crappy local community college I used to attend). HES professes that a good, rounded liberal arts background helps develop a person's thinking. This is a strong belief of mine - this is lacking in colleges in this job-oriented society we have today.

College should help people learn how to think, IMHNSO.

I had hoped to go there - but I have a problem w/my financial aid, so my plans might be diverted a bit.

Also, where you are located (or plan to be located) might make a difference in how the degree is perceived. My goal is more than just 'getting a job,' (and, indeed, due to my age which seems to be creeping up faster than I would like, , I need to aim towards self-employment), so my criteria is different than most.

 

Premiere, you mentioned in a previous thread you're going to Cornell, correct? Congratulations, you've been admitted to the least selective Ivy, does that mean you won't get an outstanding education? Of course not, it's a terrific school, just as HES is a terrific college inside Harvard University.
HES students take many of their classes along side students of Harvard College and GSAS with the exact same standards. Typically, you find the only people who frown on a Harvard degree from HES are the Harvard College kids who are paying 3x the rate for the exact same class and getting out performed.

 

Least selective Ivy is debatable. The engineering school at Cornell has around the same middle 50% range on the SAT as MIT. Some of the other colleges at Cornell (besides Engineering and CAS) might weigh us down a little bit but at least we don't offer an open-admissions undergraduate program. I was admitted to Ivies perceived as more selective -- Columbia and Penn. The only people I've heard say that Cornell is the least selective Ivy are those had no chance of getting in and didn't apply.

If any HES students are outperforming Harvard College students they're probably child prodigies in the Boston area, not adult learners.

 

It's really not debatable. Overall, Cornell is the least selective of all of the Ivies. They accept more of their applicants than any of the other seven Ivy League schools. I'm not saying it isn't a great school, it is, but it is at the bottom of the Ivy League food chain.

HES isn't open admission. It is true that anyone can take courses there, but requirements have to be met to be admitted as a degree seeking candidate.

I know people that graduated from Harvard College who are now pursuing ALM degrees through HES. I know people that had to leave other Ivies or top-tier institutions for a number of non-academic reasons who are completing their undergraduate education at HES and I have met extremely bright people who didn't apply themselves as teenagers who are now at HES and yes, they are outperforming Harvard College students.

Is HES held in as high regard by the general public as HBS, HLS HKS or HMS, no, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the school offers challenging programs with workloads that are greater at the graduate level then a number of the other schools here. At the undergraduate level the course load is identical to that taken on by students at the college.

Your perception about HES students is flawed and I'm not going to spend my time trying to educate someone who is unwilling to listen. You're a kid fresh out of high-school (or home school) who seems relatively bright, your interpersonal skills just need to be developed a bit. Hopefully Cornell will provide that for you. I'll leave it at that. Best of luck to you this Fall.

 

Cornell's Arts & Sciences and Engineering colleges are no less selective than the equivalent colleges at Penn, Dartmouth, and Brown. Admission rates don't tell the whole story. I would know, I got into and got waitlisted at schools (waitlisted at Princeton) that are supposedly more selective than some of the ones I was rejected by (Dartmouth and Amherst). Cornell is also the best school in the Ivy League for engineering, way above lowly Harvard.

You come in here acting all high and mighty, being a Harvard student and all, yet the Ed.M. program you're in accepts about half of their applicants.

I'm pretty sure I've been through and made it past more selective admissions processes than you. Seeing you try to question Cornell's selectivity is amusing, really.

 

I'm not questioning Cornell's selectivity, I conceded that it is a fine school, but still the lowest of the Ivies.

The opinion of an 18 year old regarding my education and the admission requirements of the schools I attend doesn't mean anything to me. I'm well aware of the pecking order at Harvard and were GSE sits, it doesn't bother me because it is what I want to study (and it's free).

I didn't apply to any Ivy League schools as an undergraduate and am fine with saying that had I applied, I likely would not have been admitted. I don't allow admission decisions that were made when I was 18 define who I am and I hope when you are my age you won't either. Again, best of luck this Fall.

 

As a side note, since I've came to the USA I'm really surprised of how much importance people give to the selectivity for entrance as a measure of quality of a University or College.

Shouldn't be the other way around?

I mean, a college is selective because it so good that it can be selective because everyone wants to study there. But the reason that is so, supposedly, it's the quality of education, teachers, researchers, etc... in such school, not the selectivity per se.

It's always a surprise to me when all HES detractors dismiss the fact that you can have a very similar, if not equal, education at HES and counter-attack with the "but everyone can get in there" line.

Apparently the four years (2 if your a transfer student) of undergrad study are meaningless to this people. Only what you did in high school and SAT scores count?

 

Well while the above is probably correct and I'm not going to dispute it, this "premier" guy has been posting some pretty basic stuff and getting a lot of mileage out of the forum community members.

VBulletin has an ignore function. I'd just use it. Eventually he'll get the point when no one replies to him. Of course, people can't quote him if this is to work, so...

Dear Premier -

We understand that there are groups of people that think that their favorite schools are grander than all others. These people are affectionately known as 'elitist pig dogs" by the majority. The ritual of advancement in the elitist pig dog social group is similar to the Star Trek Klingon, assassination to become a bigger pig dog is acceptable.

Therefore, in order to move from your post of responsibility as DegreeInfo's current elitist pig dog, please leave the computer, walk around until you find another elitist pig dog and advance appropriately

Signed -

DegreeInfo's former elitist pig dog. (Redemption is also possible - choose wisely)

 

I would bet money though that very few employers would actually call Harvard to find this info out. An official transcript would probably suffice in a background check. IMO

 

Very true.

Degree is a degree in Extension Studies with a concentration. Honestly, if I see HES on a resume I grab those people quickly if they don't come off as a total tool in regards to social skills, especially if they've got a couple years experience.

Happens not often enough and I'm in downtown Boston.

 

I think I should add this to put my original question in perspective:

My undergrad (my BA in History) is from a very prestigious University in Brazil, one of the top Federal Universities (in Brazil, the top Universities are owned by the government. Very tough to get in, even tougher to get out).

But I've being working with Film/TV/ANimation since before my undergrad (and I kept working as a freelancer in this field throughout my undergrad years).

I didn't get a BA in Film, Media, etc.. because there wasn't any good University in Brazil (in my opinion at least) for this field. So I came to the USA to complete a MFA in Motion Pictures and TV.

My wanting of a second BA is just to make my resume more cohesive, to have a undergrad in Film too (or Media, Communications, etc...). Yeah, it's a pretty silly and 100% personal reason for a second BA.

So I'm not considering Harvard Extension to "pass for a Harvard College graduate" (like Premiere thinks people at HES do) or expecting that people will treat me like a king or something like that just because I have a Harvard degree.

But I do want another BA in Film but from a solid B&M institution with a stronger name, history and reputation. And after some research, I think Harvard Extension and SUNY-Esc are my best bets for this.

My first BA is from a top school, so it's kind of difficult to settle for something like Excelsior (nothing against it - I think they provide a wonderful opportunity for so many people.).

(I love my current school, Academy of Art University and I'm having a blast here in San Francisco - but even this was a difficult decision for me. The AAU is considered one of the top schools in the USA for certain fields but, in the other hand, it has a very bad reputation in academic circles for being a for-profit school)

That's why I was thinking about SUNY and HES - both seems to be more solid reputation and I can get a concentration (field of study in HES case) in Film.

 

If you weren't looking for a DL option I would highly recommend CalArts--> CalArts | California Institute of the Arts This is a great school that was started by Walt Disney to field the best and brightest in film, music, studio, etc.

 

Yeah, I know CalArts - they are the ones that normally bad mouth the Academy of Art here in San Francisco...lol

But you're right, they have a awesome reputation, both in the academic and professional world.

But I'm looking for DL (totally online or with short residencies like HES) because I don't wanna stop my life for a second BA.

That would be silly.

 

Yep! Who cares if you can get in, it's getting out that means something.

 

I can't believe I missed this gem. You are dead on with this one.

 

True.

But the name of the degree itself is a giveaway that the student took classes from the Extension School, so there would be no way to hide that fact -- unless the graduate was really dishonest and changed the name of his/her degree.

That aside however, under normal circumstances, I don't see why someone who studied at the Extension School should have to specify to any employer which particular unit of Harvard s/he took classes from. Are graduates of other universities obliged to declare to the whole world that they their program was from the College of Arts & Sciences, Engineering, etc.?

I also don't see why HES graduates should be singled out from enjoying the reputation of the very university who educated them and from whom they received their degree. They're Harvard graduates; they received a Harvard-quality education. Harvard says so. IF the outside world doesn't care which unit of Harvard the graduate studied at and looks up at that graduate for the simple fact that the graduate is from "Harvard," those who studied at HES deserve that same kind of respect (if people are being that superficial, HES should be treated no differently).