Graduates of TRACS

I'm not convinced that TCB&TTS is a degree mill, either, but I think you definitely made the right choice in going with an accredited school. Best of luck to you!


Cheers,

 

Russell, i am just curious do you know what accrediting agency TRinity is working with?

 

Robert,

In correspondence with one of the men on the accreditation committee, I was told that it was NCA--the regional accreditor for that region. This person is a full-time faculty person at a RA/ATS seminary, but is also associated with Trinity.

I hope Trinity is able to achieve such accreditation, as it would lend credibility to their degrees. Like Tom, I am not convinced that Trinity is a blatant degree mill. Having seen some of their coursework, it definitely requires a good bit of work. But all things being equal, I too would have chosen the accredited ACCS.

 

I agree with you Bruce. I think TRACS in part owes where it is today to Steve Levicoff. Steve helped nudge them along (not so gently) to the point where they could be commended by US DoE on their methodology.

North

 

Good luck on your ACCS program.

Which degree program are you doing?

North

 

I agree with those who state, in terms of a BA, go with a RA degree (or GAAP equivalent for your country.) After that, look at what your needs are, and what alternatives exist.

For example, the degrees I hold in canon law, the area of my profession and academic research, are from provincially chartered universities (the equivalent of RA in Canada) which also have the equivalent to RA accreditation from the Holy See. So my degrees are recognized by both Church and state, as well as the world of academia.

As far as theology and catechesis is concerned, this is sort of a more than a hobby, but not quite a professional interest. In short, my interests in these areas is subject to my interest in canon law. Therefore, I'm going with a DETC accredited programme which is also authorized by the Congregation of the Clergy within the Catholic Church. It won't get me a teaching position in a Catholic university, or place me among the Church's leading theologians, but it serves its utility by meeting the academic requirements of the Code of Canon Law for ordination to the permanent diaconate, it allows me to teach catechism at the primary and secondary level, and it strengthens the theological framework in which I carry out my work in canon law.

On the other hand, I use to be a big fan of professional wrestling as a kid, but strongly dislike the "adult" direction the industry has taken in the last decade, as well as the increasingly dangerous moves and stunts being performed. A number of parents and old-timers share these concerns, and in response we're seeing amall, clean, promotions pop up here and there. I would bring my family to these shows as a fun hobby where we could relax and just enjoy ourselves. As a columnist in a small local newspaper, I talked the editor into allowing me to take on a nom-de-plume and write a review of the local small promotions. It generated quite a bit of interest, so he asked me if I would turn it into a column, and I accepted.

Before long, my nom-de-plume took on a bad guy character and ended up taking on a peripheral role in a couple of these promotions. Before moving to my present job, there were plans in the works with a couple promotions to eventually work me into a more active role in some of the story-lines. So I decided since my gimmick is that of a arrogant sports editor and commentator who flaunts the fact he is more cultured and better educated than the fans, he needed a doctorate to use as a prop. Not only would an RA doctorate be overdoing it and expensive, but it would have been seriously disrespectful and I didn't want to risk my academic future as it pertains to my day job. On the other hand, because of my interest and respect for distance education, and because I didn't want some degree mill catching wind of this and deliberately blurring the line between my real academic pursuits and the persona I play in an after-hours hobby, I refused to pay a degree mill acting in bad faith. So, that basically left General Delivery University. Had my day job not taken me to another state, I had planned in the future to suggest to the bookers we spin an angle around my character's PhD from a degree mill, especially since I already had some of the serious academics marking out (forgetting the athleticism is real, but the show is scripted) by my (mis)use of "Dr..., PhD".

Okay, so the examples I'm drawing are extreme, but it gets the point across. In terms of my professional and academic interests, stick to the gold standard. In terms of those areas which support the aforementioned indirectly, the silver standard will do if it meets in-house requirements. In terms of pure hobby, the tin foil standard has served me admirably.

JCL

 

Trinity BC/S of Indiana

The issue of the work Trinity BC/S might require to complete a class has been raised on this thread. note:

THIS IS NOT A RECOMMENDATION FOR TRINITY!

Nevertheless my three grad classes there in the last 12 months (one done with a PhD from Dallas TS and two from a PhD from Westminster) did require a fair amount of work/effort: read 1200 pp, answer questions based on cassettes, write four papers of 20pp each, and pass summative. Yet I was becoming unhappy since pretty much postgrads and undergrads share the same cassettes and for the most part reading assignments! (although more depth was required in the doing of papers). Another thing that griped me was that profs were so (it seemed to me) inefficient in making probing questions on student submissions. I could not (having taught secondary school for 33 yrs fathom why these apparent deficiencies were allowed to go on). Still quite a bit of work was required!

Then I found this forum and it was kindly pointed out to me that an unaccredited PhD was hardly of much utility, did not well represent what to someone of my age was a good indicator of a life of study, and was actually more costly in $ than some other programs! I know you've seen my gratitude expressed before, but: THANKS, THANKS !!! AGAIN!

So now I am struggling so far unsuccesfully to mesh unaccredited Christian higher ed with the mandates I see in my Faith for teachers (therefore schools) to be honest, respectable, and to have the motivation to do the very best for their students! But can this be done without Accreditation? I'm often too critical; perhaps here too?

 

Re: Trinity BC/S of Indiana

There are a few unaccredited programs which are repsectable and the equivalent of accredited. Bob Jones University is one. BJU offers world class education but eschews accreditation. I wrote to them about TRACS and they send back a pamphlet written by Bob Jones regarding accreditation. They were concerned about compromise and listed examples of religious schools having to compromise with both RA & ATS. They would not look at TRACS either because even though it is conservative they felt that at some point they might be required to compromise doctrinally. Pensacola Christian College is another that is unaccredited but well respected. Steve Levicoff lists a couple of others in Name it and Frame it.

Incidentally, BJU is not cheap but does have a good distance learning program developed.

My thing is that for utility with so many accredited religious programs available through DL (RA-TRACS-ATS) why choose unaccredited. To me it is just good stewardship. You have chosen a very cost effective and yet equivalent of accredited program to meet your needs.

North

 

TRACS reputation was tarnished in the beginning by granting Associate status to some extremely questionable schools (like Lael Graduate School for example). Over the years they have been much more stringent and seem to have gotten their act together. But the initial impression, based on solid evidence, is the one that seems to stick. On paper I believe that TRACS is certainly as legitimate as ATS. ATS cannot point to any approval higher than TRACS can. On the other hand, ATS, as far as I know, has never had a tarnished reputation they had to overcome, as does TRACS. If TRACS keeps their act together over the long haul, they will probably gain acceptance.

I write this as a person that has graduated from two regionally accredited schools (Bachelors & Masters), and a TRACS accredited school (D.Min. ACCS). While it is hard to compare a doctoral program with an undergraduate or lower level graduate program, my somewhat subjective opinion is that the TRACS accredited program was more difficult, provided more practical instruction, and is more valued by my colleagues.

BLD

 

38 YEARS LATE!

And speaking of TRACS:

In 1964 I received from Linda Vista Baptist Bible College the BA in "Bible." In 1966 I got the ThB. This was kind of a neat place up on a hill with a see forever view in San Diego County. BUT--NOT accredited by anyone! As for me I would not have then known accreditation from Nestle's Quick.

Now I see that they've changed the name to Southern California Theological Seminary and have acquired TRACS accreditation. Linda Vista was begun in 1946 by a dear departed man named Otto Reece who had a few unaccredited doctorates.

I was just a man "before my time"???

 

Re: 38 YEARS LATE!

I wonder if you can write in and ask for a relacement diploma with the new name on it.

Any word from SATS/UNIZUL yet?

North

 

Thanks for your input!

North

 

38 years late

North:

That,s an idea..might try asking for a new diploma. But my understanding as per Walston's Guide is that one's status as to RA depends on whether at graduation the school is RA.

I got an email from Song yesterday saying they would be sending my transcript to SAQA for approval, but that it looked fine to him. I did pay for both enrollment and first years study at SATS request. Sure is inexpensive by comparison. Song reaffirmed the DTh would be thru UNIZUL, entirely distant, unaffected by any consolidation , and informally assigned me a prof to work with.
Thanks for asking,.

 

Re: 38 years late

Sounds like you are on your way with UNIZUL. Who is your advisor?

From what has been posted here, the RA issue is true but then it has also been posted that for practical purposes if it is from an accredited school they may not check (of course TRACS was not around in the 60's). The other issue is that with as many degrees as you have, your career goals, and the fact that you will have a doctorate, it is not likely to be a big issue that 5 degrees ago your BA was not accredited.

North

 

UNIZUL

Hi North:

Song says Alrah Pitchers will be my advisor (promoter). My thesis (dissertation) is in Systematic Theology. I'm hoping Pitchers Will let me research the issue of the Relative Subordination of the Son: Immanent/Eternal or Economic/Temporal?

I have seen, actually, a fair sprinkling of seminary profs teaching with only ThMs. Had one myself at Western in the MDiv portion (Hermeneutics). This at an RA/ATS school!

Really anxious to start, but formal acceptance probably at least couple months off: transcripts OK'd by SAQA, approval of research proposal, I haven't even rec'd the application from UNIZUL yet. (mailed 14 days ago).

Thanks for your interest..no one around here to share my excitement with,

 

Re: UNIZUL

Hello Bill,

Glad to hear of your acceptance into the SATS/UZ program, I'm sure you will do well. UZ is indeed a credible GAAP school holding the same recognition as Unisa, Pretoria, Potchefstroom, RAU, etc. You may want to check out a small but significant forum for students involved in non-US research degrees at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/ChristchurchFellowship . The posters there post here as well, but the subject matter is specifically related to programs such as SATS/UZ.

Keep us updated!

 

Russell

Thanks, I'll look into that.

 

Re: UNIZUL

Bill,

I received the application material and forms for the dissertation proposal via e-mail. From what I remember they are also available at the UNIZUL web site. You can down load the forms and complete them.

E-mail me privately on this board (with your e-mail). Someone also sent me an old SATS guide to writing up the proposal. It gave me a good guideline as a starting point and you may want it (UNIZUL/SATS sent me nothing so this came in handy).

North

 

Just a quick question. If a school is accredited by TRACS and they are up for a five year re- visit. What types of things are they looking for in the school. Are there any visits from the accreditors during the five years?

Just wondering

Robert

 

I don't know about the period in between accreditation visits and am going to hazard a guess on the other. Speaking as someone who works in a regulatory agency the process is probably somewhat similar to what we do. There are going to be regulations that the accrediting agency has as well as policies that that school has developed in line with the requirements of the agency. If it is similar to what we do then they will review documentation (financial records, student records, policies, processes, etc) possibly speak to faculty, staff, students, etc. Once the process is done a report will be prepared informing the school of the findings such as areas of noncompliance, and technical assistance (recommendations etc). If all goes well they get reapproved for 5 years. Not so good reapproved for a lesser period and really not so good then probation.

The above is just my guess based on my experience with the regulatory process.

North