For Profits and Defaults

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by humbug101, Jul 1, 2010.

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  1. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    The United States didn't have debtors prisons until about 10 or 12 years ago when governments began incarcerating fathers who were behind on their child-support payments. It is now common practice to lock-up men who are in debt for child support. Welcome to the 21st Century.
     
  2. -kevin-

    -kevin- Resident Redneck

    These individuals are not locked up for a debt but rather "contempt of court". We don't have debtor prisons, just creative ways to accomplish the same thing.
     
  3. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Even better, you know that whole "if you cannot afford an attorney one will be appointed for you" thing? Well, that doesn't apply to a contempt of court situation.

    -=Steve=-
     
  4. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    They are locked up for being in debt. After they are arrested, they can be released if they pay their debt. That's the way it works in my jurisdiction.
     
  5. AUTiger00

    AUTiger00 New Member

     
  6. -kevin-

    -kevin- Resident Redneck

    Works that way everywhere. The costs can often include court costs, attorneys fees, etc... but the fact remains you are not being locked up for a debt, but for contempt of court. The court order is the obligating document. The U.S. does not have debtor prisons, some other legal action is the basis for being arrested.

    Regardless, the outcome is the same.
     
  7. racechick8293

    racechick8293 New Member

     
  8. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    When did it become ok to say something like this? No, they are not RAPING their students and it is a horrific analogy to make.
     
  9. Tom H.

    Tom H. New Member

    The U.S. does not have debtor's prisons or find creative ways to incarcerate people who are in debt. Legislation made failure to pay child support and disregarding court orders to pay a crime. It is not a personal debt. The proper analogy would be failure to pay Federal income tax - it is not considered a debt but rather an obligation under the law. Don't pay and you could be prosecuted, convicted and jailed.

    That being said, child support is the exception and not the rule. Student loan debt, while not dischargeable by bankruptcy, is nevertheless just debt. No judge can order you to pay it under the penalty of a contempt finding.
     
  10. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    When you owe money, can't pay it, and end up in jail as a result, that's debtors' prison. Everything else is just semantics.

    -=Steve=-
     
  11. b4cz28

    b4cz28 New Member

    Well in Texas we have Criminal Non-Support and it is a SJF with 2 years in jail.
    aka Debtor prisons
     
  12. b4cz28

    b4cz28 New Member

    What? Dang, do you need that care bear?
     
  13. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    In my state, it's not a contempt of court charge. Instead, it's a write of bodily attachment for failure to pay court ordered monies e.g. child support. Officers are ordered to imprison the defendant until he pays his debt.

    Here's the statute:
    61.11 Writs.--

    (2)(a) When the court issues a writ of bodily attachment in connection with a court-ordered support [$$$] obligation, the writ or attachment to the writ must include, at a minimum, such information on the respondent's physical description and location as is required for entry of the writ into the Florida Crime Information Center telecommunications system and authorization for the assessment and collection of the actual costs associated with the service of the writ and transportation of the respondent in compliance thereof. The writ shall direct that service and execution of the writ may be made on any day of the week and any time of the day or night.

    (c) Upon receipt of a writ from the clerk of the court, the sheriff shall enter the information on any unserved writ into the Florida Crime Information Center telecommunications system to make the information available to other law enforcement agencies within the state. The writ shall be enforceable in all counties of the state.

    (d) Upon receipt of the purge payment, the receiving agency shall provide the subject with a written receipt acknowledging such payment, which must be carried on the person of the respondent for a period of at least 30 days from the date of payment as proof of such payment. A sheriff receiving such payment shall forward the funds to the sheriff who entered the information about the writ into the Florida Crime Information Center telecommunications system and who shall forward the funds to the appropriate clerk of court. ​

    Pay up or get arrested!!! When these debtors laws first came into existence about 12 years ago, none of us could believe it because our country's forefathers fled Britain's debtors prisons. Now our country has them!!! :rolleyes:
     
  14. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member

    I have to admit to being a for-profit university Ph.D. student drop out.
    Why? I was pursuing a joint ERAU/NCU Ph.D. using employee funded tuition. My employer decided to move to another state and instead of relocating I took advantage of an early retirement offer. And I decided buying nice bicycles and traveling were a better investments than a Ph.D. for my own money.

    Now I'm taking classes for fun though a UC school and at various California CCs.
     
  15. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member

     
  16. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    Well, how about admissions standards?

    Most of the students who attend SMU and TCU graduated in the top quarter of their high school classes. Nearly all graduated in the top half. There is a perception that a degree from one of these schools means that you are probably smarter than average. Their degrees are therefore more respected, and have greater value on the job market, than those of less selective schools.

    The University of Phoenix, on the other hand, is widely perceived as an institution with low admissions standards -- so much so, that they literally recruit drug-addicted high school dropouts at homeless shelters. Their degrees are therefore less respected, and have lower value on the job market, than those of more selective schools.
     
  17. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    One of the many problems in the discussion of for-profits vs. non-profits is the assumption that the former consists exclusively of institutions that are part of large publicly traded corporations (e.g. Phoenix, Walden, Kaplan, Strayer, Capella, American Intercontinental, etc.). Many, like Keiser, Sullivan, Herzing, etc. are small to medium sized proprietary institutions that do not act like those constantly in the headlines.

    The other problem has to do with tuition. The Parthenon Group, using five years of longitudinal data from the National Center for Education Statistics, concluded that two-year degrees completed at public and proprietary (for-profit) cost the same. The amount of federal tax funding (e.g. pell grants & student loans) spent for the average proprietary school student was found to be about 1/2 that of start and local tax funding for the average public school student (federal funding for public schools is over and above that amount). So, according to this research, you and I are paying a lot more for the community college student who is receiving local and federal tax funds than the student at the "for-profit" who is receiving only federal funding. By talking only about one form of taxpayer funding and ignoring the other, the anti for-profit folks are not painting a complete (or honest) picture.

    In my city, we have a large public state university, a medium-sized private proprietary (for-profit) university and two "non-profit" private universities. Adjusted to semester hours, the undergraduate per-credit tuition for the state U. is $331, the proprietary school is $366, one "non-profit" is $585 and the other "non-profit is $690.
     
  18. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    1. Are the drug-addicted high school dropouts at homeless shelters able to complete the curriculum while under the influence of those drugs?

    2. If the drug-addicted high school dropouts are so destitute that they are living in homeless shelters, then do they have enough money to purchase a laptop to do their homework on and to be able to log into their online classrooms? Plus they have to purchase an internet connection (aircard or hardwire). $$$

    3. Where are these homeless people getting money to be able to afford tuition at U0P? :eek:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 3, 2010
  19. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member

    That happened to someone I know in California (not a student debt). I had to go to my bank, withdraw funds, and pay the debt (at the police station as I recall or maybe it was bail), then the person was released from jail.
     
  20. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    If you read the linked news story, you will find full answers to all of your questions.

    Short answers:

    (1) In many cases, no. For example, one student is quoted as stating ""Sometimes, having used so much drugs, I have trouble retaining information."
    (2) The schools give them stipends if they attend classes and keep up their grades.
    (3) The schools collect federal financial aid on behalf of the students that they enroll. The stipends are a form of kickback.
     

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