Discussion in 'Military-related education topics' started by Abner, Aug 7, 2017.
For-profit college faces off with the feds over vet benefits - POLITICO
They have a poor 19% grad rate.
Sadly, many taxpayer CC's have a 8-12% Grad rate also.
I never graduated from the community colleges I attended. Like many people, I transferred the credits that I needed before getting my associate's. Look at my signature. I guess I'm a dropout and a failure who never finished any college degree.
Seriously, it is estimated that community colleges would have 40% graduation rates if students who went on to complete bachelor's degree were counted. A lot of people just simply don't care about getting their associate's degree. Why would I need my associate's in criminal justice from San Antonio College when I used the CJ credits to earn a BA? It would serve no purpose.
You're very right, except in specialized fields (many of which are medical including, Radiologic Technology, Dental Hygiene, etc) the associates has very little value as compared to a full bachelors. This is especially true for degrees in fields like Management or Psychology that usually see individuals hold a higher level of degree when working in those positions. I think it would be very interesting to track which students transfer and then graduate with the full bachelors.
Incidentally, I also went to San Antonio College my first semester of college before going off to a four year. The saying used to be, "if you can't hack it, SAC it" but in truth, it was a whole lot cheaper and a great move in retrospect.
Many CC's even with official "Reverse College Transfer" are still at 10% graduation rates. When my kid started at the University two years ago it was a checkbox to transfer all university credits at the end of the term back to their last CC. CC's in some States like Oregon will grant you a AS degree even if your late 75% credits are not from them. Its a great idea if you have 25% credits with a CC. Most just get a ASG (general) degree. Another weakness is CC are cranking out too many general degrees with ZERO focus.
Hardly anyone knows about reverse transfer programs, and most universities do not have a checkbox to get an automatic associate's. Even if people were aware of reverse transfer programs, why would they care when they are almost finished with a bachelor's? San Antonio College offers reverse transfer, and I still wasn't interested. The requirements for their degree were different from what was required at TESC (now TESU). Even if I had enrolled at the public university I applied to in Texas, I still wouldn't have all the requirements to finish the associate's degree at San Antonio College.
The Associate in General Studies (ASG) degree is like the Big 3. Its 100% flexible. Very few real requirements. The CC's often transfer in credits as electives if nothing else. Official and unofficial reverse transfer programs are easy there.
Kind of like how liberal WV State is with their two programs. You only need 3 SH from even WVU if you have some resident credits from another WV State Colleges.
That's not how it works in Texas and some other states. There is something called the core. It's the general education requirements. What each school will accept toward the core varies. For example, CTC accepted one of my humanities courses as meeting the fine arts requirement, but SAC did not. However, if you complete the core at one public school, it is required by law to transfer to another public school within the state. Unfortunately for me, neither CTC nor SAC would accept my WIU course as English Comp II. TESU accepted the course, so I wasn't going to bother with taking it again just to get an associate's from SAC or CTC.
Besides, an associate's in general studies is almost worthless. And, WVU can do what schools can't do under the Southern Association. That accreditors requires that 25% of the degree be completed in residence. It's not a very forward-thinking accreditor because they also don't accredit 100% online schools.
So how many people attend for profits and then went on to earn a degree somewhere else? If your playing that game where do you draw the line?
I don't know, but when people come up with hypotheses to test, they usually come up with something logical. People often attend community colleges to save money. On average, for-profit schools cost more than public universities, so it wouldn't make sense to attend most for-profits with the intention of saving money. Additionally, most community colleges don't offer bachelor's degrees. While you might be able to compare 2-year for-profits to CCs, you can't compare 4-year for-profits to CCs.
With CCs, you HAVE to transfer 99% of the time to earn a bachelor's degree. Most for-profits with online programs offer bachelor's degrees. So, are most for-profit students who are in non-vocational programs attending with the intention of transferring? I doubt it unless we really do have that many dumb people in this country.
Now, there is a study that compared outcomes of CC students vs. 2-year for-profit students. CC students did better in every area except for cosmetology. I'll see if I can find the link.
I agree an ASG is almost worthless, but after a student spends (25% residency) at one place its nice to have something to show for the time.
I guess I'll be the black sheep and admit I'm currently attending Ashford. I'm AD military, and 6 classes away from finishing my BA while holding a 4.0 GPA. Ashford is 100% free for AD, text books included. I cant see anything the school does that would cause such a low graduation rate. You either keep taking classes until you finish, or you dont. The design of the classes is pretty good IMO. You know exactly what material you need to review, what/when the assignments are due, what your assignments should cover, and how they will be graded. Just like most things in life, the amount of effort put in by an individual will determine the resulting outcome.
Did you graduate? Glad you are having a great time at Ashford. I know nothing of them, but few know of the Big 3 and I think they are great. Hope it helps your military career! Keep us posted.
I am a final paper away from finishing the class I am currently taking, and then I will be 3 classes away from finishing! I had to take a short break in order to not run out of TA. One of the downsides to Ashford is they will disenroll you if you take longer than 6 weeks between classes. I had to take two 6 week breaks in 2017 to make that work with TA only paying for 6 classes in a year, and the classes being 5 weeks long (I also take 1 week off after every class for my own sanity).
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