Feedback from state boards and Academic evaluation services re: IUGS & NAB

Your rationalization above does not justify whatsoever your going into a "blind rage" leading to grossly inappropriate ad hominem attacks and rants! I suggest that you turn "a new leaf" and be aware that your unwarranted attacks revealed who YOU are, not me, and was quite frankly disgusting!

 

Nope I guess it wasn't the qoute feature. Still feeling the rage...

 

This right here. You took two sentences out of context, when in fact they literally bookend my argument contradicting your statement! For example, a student graduating from UWI in Dominica technically has a NAB-accredited degree that is quite clearly RA-equivalent (proof of this could be UWI's accreditations in Jamaica and Trinidad, but much more significantly - their reputation in the region and beyond). Why would you do that?
In fact, I can easily find a statement of yours I can agree with:

Of course, any RA accreditor is a substantially better-known quantity than NAB (that's all but brand-new, currently accrediting two schools). And you present an argument FOR IUGS utility that I would make as well. It has utility. OTOH, it is not full RA equivalent for many practical purposes.
This is also not a binary thing. Say, Ryokan would probably be a substantially safer choice for someone trying to practice psychology or MFT in California. OTOH, IUGS (with credential evaluation) is a better bet to secure a FT instructor position at a small community college. California Southern, being a Californian school that is RA, would beat both in either context (with Ryokan holding its own or better when talking about the board exams performance). A good foreign school like UNISA will be better received in academia than any of the three, but lose out to Ryokan and CSU for aspiring California psychologists. That sort of things.

 

If that is the case then you need to deal with it BUT not on this forum! Your rage is YOUR issue, not mine or any other posters, and this not the place to displace it. In addition, you are hijacking this thread with your personal grudges.

 

"Stanislav;This right here. You took two sentences out of context, when in fact they literally bookend my argument contradicting your statement! For example, a student graduating from UWI in Dominica technically has a NAB-accredited degree that is quite clearly RA-equivalent (proof of this could be UWI's accreditations in Jamaica and Trinidad, but much more significantly - their reputation in the region and beyond). Why would you do that?
In fact, I can easily find a statement of yours I can agree with:"

However, the question is whether a student graduating from UWI in Dominica technically has a NAB-accredited degree that is quite clearly RA-accredited as you assert? In fact, although the NAB of Dominica lists UWI as one of two of institutions it accredits, in fact it is not the primary accreditor of UWI whatsoever and does not appear to be the basis for their equivalence to RA in the US! So what is the basis for your assurance that it is?

"Of course, any RA accreditor is a substantially better-known quantity than NAB (that's all but brand-new, currently accrediting two schools)."

Obviously.

"And you present an argument FOR IUGS utility that I would make as well. It has utility. OTOH, it is not full RA equivalent for many practical purposes.
This is also not a binary thing."

Yes, it has some utility such as being referred to as "doctor" in certain US states but not all, but not for licensing as a behavioral mental health professional.

"Say, Ryokan would probably be a substantially safer choice for someone trying to practice psychology or MFT in California."

Obviously.

"OTOH, IUGS (with credential evaluation) is a better bet to secure a FT instructor position at a small community college."

Here is where you are making global statements which are highly questionable and which you do not provide any substantive evidence to confirm!

"California Southern, being a Californian school that is RA, would beat both in either context (with Ryokan holding its own or better when talking about the board exams performance)."

Obviously.

"A good foreign school like UNISA will be better received in academia than any of the three, but lose out to Ryokan and CSU for aspiring California psychologists. That sort of things."

So what? The primary question is whether a doctorate from IUGS in the behavioral services is worth the high tuition and time investment relating to its level of utilization, acceptability and recognition in the US. In that regard, you have not provided any substantive data that supports your contention that it does other than your opinion.

 

So what? The primary question is whether a doctorate from IUGS is the behavioral services is worth the high tuition and time investment relating to its level of utilization, acceptability and recognition in the US. In that regard, you have not provided any data that supports your contention that it does.

 

Because it's the University of the West Indies, a regional behemoth. Any credential evaluator not recognizing UWI is incompetent, based on the school's reputation alone. It sets standards for accreditors in the region, not vice versa.

Also, for someone NOT working in the mental health field. You actually didn't prove you can't get licensed in ANY state; in any case, foreign degree is a poor choice in such context in general.

Do I have to explain it? With IUGS, you can get credential evaluation saying it's RA-equivalent, hence satisfying many HR policies and job postings (and, actually, accreditation requirements) in higher education. With state-approved Ryokan, you can't.

I never said anything about the behavioral services. But even there, it clearly have some, rather limited, utility for a small number of students (with high number of transferrable graduate credits - ABDs) - for the title, where it would work. Would not be my first or second or third choice, but for some.

 

Stanislav, fyi

Stanislav,

It appears that you are placing significant emphasis on the mutual recognition of NAB with UWI, including this school's reputation alone, leading to your conclusion that a doctorate from IUGS is equivalent to RA accreditation. You then hold that UWI "...sets the standards for the accreditors, not vice versa".

However, tonight, I received an email from one of the NACES affiliated Academic Evaluation Services, which originally indicated to me verbally that a doctorate from IUGS was equivalent to RA but after reviewing the comprehensive standards for accreditation reversed their position as follows:

"After reviewing the information available, it is my judgment that the International University of Graduate Studies, now operating in Dominica, IS NOT the equivalent of a regionally accredited university in the United States. Accreditation by the NAB of Dominica is limited to institutions that cater to non Dominicans and does not convey any state recognition other than the ability to operate as a business"

"In my opinion, this institution is not a good solution. Sorry to be the bearer of unhappy news."

Btw, although not mentioned in my previous post, last Friday, I spoke with a senior representative of AACRAO, who returned my call and indicated that after reviewing the particulars relating to this school and its accreditation, would not recommend it whatsoever. In addition, the fact that this school was only accredited to 2018 was also a point of concern and risk.

 

NO I DID NOT. Gawd! IUGS grads can find a NACES agency stating they have a degree equivalent to RA. This does not mean the degree is as recognized as RA one. It means that the degree can be useful in many, but not all, contexts. It's hampered by its obscurity and old bad press. UWI, on the other hand, is an RA-equivalent school. I'd say that on balance it's better than University of Phoenix, Northcentral, California State, this crowd. It is a real school with real presence and real academics really working there.

Well yeah. What OTHER Jamaican university can you name? How about Trinidadan? One from Bermuda? Literally their dictionary entry for "university" have a picture of the UWI campus.

Well, NAB characterization is obviously false. I will concede that the fact some gatekeepers may FEEL that way is a point against IUGS as graduates will have to deal with this. However, NAB accredits precisely one school catering to foreigners, and that's IUGS. So by your correspondent's logic, IUGS is tarnished by association with NAB, which is suspect because it accredits IUGS. Circular logic.

THAT actually speaks well about NAB's procedures.

 

"Stanislav: NO I DID NOT. Gawd! IUGS grads can find a NACES agency stating they have a degree equivalent to RA."

Not so fast! Originally, two out of six academic evaluation services stated that the degree was equivalent to RA, but based on tonight's feedback, its three yea, three nay! In a situation such as this one needs to exercise caution.

"This does not mean the degree is as recognized as RA one. It means that the degree can be useful in many, but not all, contexts."

It means that the degree can be useful in many ways? What substantive evidence do you have that confirms this statement? Please stay with facts, not your opinion.

"It's hampered by its obscurity and old bad press.

That is true.

"UWI, on the other hand, is an RA-equivalent school".

However, we are SPECIFICALLY discussing the accreditation equivalence of IUGS NOT UWI!

"I'd say that on balance it's better than University of Phoenix, Northcentral, California State, this crowd. It is a real school with real presence and real academics really working there."

Please provide specific evidence that supports your assertion above and confirms that it is fact!

"Well, NAB characterization is obviously false. I will concede that the fact some gatekeepers may FEEL that way is a point against IUGS as graduates will have to deal with this."

Obviously false when three NACES and ACCRAO academic evaluation services and an ACCRAO senior representative state that the characterization is true? Please support your assertion with facts!

"However, NAB accredits precisely one school catering to foreigners, and that's IUGS. So by your correspondent's logic, IUGS is tarnished by association with NAB, which is suspect because it accredits IUGS. Circular logic."

Quite frankly it does not look as promising as you make it appear. I intend to follow up with NAB and UWI directly to bring this matter to closure.

"THAT actually speaks well about NAB's procedures."

However, you did not comment on the feedback that I received tonight that NAB is only indicating that IUGS can operate as a business!

 

Caution? Sure! One needs a really, really good reason to pick IUGS. It's an obscure for-profit with ragtag faculty which is too expensive for a personal interest degree. Which does not mean it can't be worthwhile in specific circumstances. Eg., that tenured associate professor at CUNY.

"This does not mean the degree is as recognized as RA one. It means that the degree can be useful in many, but not all, contexts."

On UWI? Look here and form your own opinion:
The University of the West Indies Theses Collection
UWI is a large public research school that would be mid-tier in US, not at the top but way above the for-profits. I do not even know why we are debating this.
IUGS is a small, niche for-profit that academically is more similar to some ACICS and maybe few DEAC schools, with added bonus of arguably being "GAAP". Yet both it and UWI's Dominica site are NAB-accredited. This is inconclusive but promising.

The comment is simple: clearly, business licensure is NOT NAB's mission. It's just not. They both may yet fail, but it is an accreditation operation, not licensing one. As to NABs procedures, frankly Steve knows more than either of us.

 

Stanislav, although it may appear that I took the question of NAB/IUGS's validity and credibility to the upper stratosphere, in fact I did so to bring greater clarity to this vague subject. Although questions still exist ,which I may clarify directly with NAB, UWI and the Barbados Accreditation Council, I want to thank you for brainstorming this subject with me and providing your perspective. Regardless of our disagreements, your input was enlightening. Have a good day. Jan