Excelsior College made a huge mistake....

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Hello Little Fauss,

This discussion between yourself and Philoscholar has been enjoyable. This post, to me, is a great example of you get only what you give. I am not so sure that students of this day do not work as hard or as much as students of the past and I will not get into that discussion as I have no hard facts to prove it. (One thing I have learned in college is never get into a debate with a professor unless you have some hard qualitative/quantiative evidence to back up your point, lest you lose the argument before it begins!!) However, you both make many good points. I agree that sometimes one needs to stop to smell the roses to realize that school has dual roles. One is a purpose to be used as a tool to reach a goal - in the case of Philoscholar, to be used to get a job. But the counterpoint that you make Little Fauss is that it is that the purpose is to learn something. I think your both right and you both have hit the nail on the head for me as to the reason why I am attending school, I want to advance myself in my career and I want to learn something. I believe that kids that are the generation after mine nowadays (I'm 27) go to school because it is either the thing to do or because their parents tell them they have to. Either way they don't go for either reason that has been stated above. This in turn creates the situation that seems to have frustrated you, Little Fauss, on many an occassion of teaching undergraduates (I am assuming this is what you teach). The kids just don't have a lot of responsibility when it comes to the school thing. I am stating this generally anyway as I know that there are some that really put forth the effort. I can also understand Philoscholar's point though to get it over with. School can be a long drawn out process for most of us that are doing it non-trad. Myself, it started in 1998 and has continued off and on for the past 10 years. I also am of the mind that I just want my undergrad, at least, to be over. Although I still bust my behind to make sure that I indeed learn something, I know that not everyone is like me ( I have maintained a 4.0 and received a small scholarship because of this). I guess what my point is here before I went on the rant is that you get what you give. In the case of your student that blew off the final expecting to get a grade bump with the extra credit, you are 100% completely in the right Little Fauss. This girl was irresponsible in letting her final grade rest on extra credit where there were no guarantees. She took the chance and lost, and was a poor loser at that. You live you learn, move on. As far as taking Shakespeare classes, it is what a good liberal arts education is all about. I once had a philosophy professor (who I swear was alive when and actually spoke with Socrates himself) who said that back when he was at Fordham that all that was needed by anyone was a good liberal arts degree. It was the knowledge gained about the classics that was all that was needed and would open the doorways to ones vocation in life. None of this specialization stuff....But today is different .....

 

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Hello,

I'm so happy we could entertain you...lol. I just wanted to say that, yes, school has taught me a lot of things. But I mostly entered college because I wanted a better life than my parents have had (who barely went to college - for a semester - and never got a degree at all). My father served in the military for over 20 years, my mother has had a few small part-time jobs, but is mostly a homemaker. My father is retired now (even after having a few odd jobs) - as is my mother for all intent and purposes...and they are now living on a conservative income. So I wanted a different life. One filled with better information about my world (instead of just my parents' views) yes, but also greater security for my own life. This is the goal anyway, and I constantly seek after it.

Most jobs or careers require a college diploma, and a Master's degree too (which is my next step - most likely in Social Work/counseling, or some form of teaching/education). So for me, its not strictly about the knowledge gained (I can't remember half of what I learned in Biology, so science careers are out)...but about opening new and different doors too. Instead of the ones that lead to fast food employment or labor retail businesses for people with merely a high school diploma or an Associate's Degree.

Enjoy the day.

- Shawn

 

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Hi Shawn,

I did not mean it to sound like it was entertaining to hear you two argue your points, but it just triggered a little insight for me as to why I went to school. Your second post really hit home for me too. My father is incredibly smart , but has been a blue collar worker his entire life. He calls himself the "jack of all trades but master of none" due to the fact that he has enough knowledge of everything to be dangerous but not enough about one topic to be rich. I see him now in his mid 50's still a laborer with no real retirement to speak of and I say, man that life isn't for me. My mother was like yours, mostly a homemaker in our lower middle class family. She passed away at 45 years old from lung cancer which made me think hard about making some goals for myself in life. One of the major goals that I came up with is to never be like my parents. Granted I love them and I know they were happy most of the time, but due to financial and security restraints there was a lot of time you could cut the stress with a knife. I don't want that life. I want to be, as we say in Judo, in a state of constant improvement. Which is why I think school and a constant yearning to attain knowledge will be the right tool to help me get ahead. Credentialism is at a manic state today, you need a bachelors degree just to be an administrative assistant! That is ridiculous, I know 50 years ago they weren't recruiting on campus for a grad to go and work in the mills. Here in the Northeast it is the norm to ask for: Bachelors degree required, Masters preferred. This is why, like you, I keep pushing myself to finish school. Today it is truely a necessity not only for what you learn, but for the reasons that you learn it.

Have a good day,

Justin

 

I don't think it's all that rediculous. This is the individual that establishes the first impression of your company to your customers. She (or he) represents you when you're not there. She types letters for you and you hope she saves your a$$ when you've made a mistake.

She generally has to be able to make very quick and valid decisions while talking on the phone to your customers (who she probably hasn't met) or when they just appear in the office wanting the impossible right this minute.

You expect her to be completely familiar with MS Word, Excel, Access, and Outlook. Maybe even project. She better format those documents going out right - we don't want to look ignorant. She needs to be able to find anything you want to know anytime you want to know it - an expert Googler.

She prepares spreadsheets for you and filles stuff you don't want to look at - until you want it and then you want it now.

She probably does a big chunk of your event planning and in all liklihood is your therapist too.

She's possibly the 2nd most important person in your business, the customer being first, and your business probably runs just fine when you're not there. Only because you have an admin asst. that can cover your butt.

A bad one, or one with too little education can cost you a bundle.

I've only had two great ones in all these years. Amy and Tori are both worth way more than they ever made, and they both were college educated. I hate it when people walk away from my office and say "damn! she's an idiot." because that reflects directly on me.

US Census tells as that "Nationwide, 9.4 percent of the population held graduate or professional degrees..." That doesn't point to a creep in the number of jobs requiring a graduate degree -- it sort of indicates that holders of one are among the less than 10% of the population that can even apply for those "master's degree required" jobs.

I'll buy that an associate's or a bachelor's is just about required for a decent job in America. I see that as a good thing.

 

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Hello Justin,

No...its cool. No offense taken, I was kidding with you. Yeah, I agree that the need for a degree for some fields that did not normally require them has become insane. I'm in the NW, and many of the job postings and employment agencies often state that with most jobs...you need a degree.

My only fear in terms of gaining the required degrees has always been "will I be too old, by the time I'm done with school"? I mean, by all accounts, I'm halfway to retirement age now...and I have little to show for it. I just hope its not a waste of time (yes "little faus", I know) in terms of being in school now to get the career I'll want in the end.

Keep up the good work. You'll get there.

- Shawn

 

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I think you're right. I'll bet--though no figures to back this up--that a far higher percentage of high school grads attend college now than a generation ago. That fills smaller, less prestigious schools like mine with students who have no good notion of what they're doing or why they're there. Why do they go? Because their Baby Boomer parents think all kids are entitled to college, just like little Jefferey was entitled to play every game in soccer and entitled to a trophy when the season was over, even though he was the weakest link on the worst team.

Even though they don't have a clear notion of what they're doing, younger students are quite certain they deserve good grades. That's what they got back in high school--hey, they were one among 52 valedictorians and salutatorians in a class of 127! I give good grades--sometimes when I don't think they're deserved. My average grade over the course of the last three years has been a "B". I feel sheepish about this, because it's hard for me to believe that the average student is above average--of course, it's theoretically impossible. There are only two possibilities: 1). All the sharp students gravitate to my classes in particular, perhaps because they're drawn by my reputation for brilliant lectures, or 2). I'm a sucker grader, and I've become part of the problem. Guess what option my money's on? (it ain't #1)

But everyone wants to be liked, no one wants to be shredded on reviews. If students tank you, you're not going to be able to use your reviews as "evidence of teaching excellence" when looking for a full time academic job--and I know, they ask--and it's going to look fishy to hiring committees. So, I guess my main problem is with myself, not my students. My last class had the following grade distribution: A - 45%; B - 33%; C - 22%; D,F - 0%. Now I had some good students in that class, but that seems like grade inflation. Yet when I see colleagues turning in their grades in the business office, I never fail to be amazed by how "tough" a grader I am. It doesn't seem right. I don't want to be the one handing Jefferey the trophy that he doesn't deserve, that just sets him up for failure.

Anyway, I'm not really all that frustrated at students. This is just a forum rant. I love teaching, and I like students; even the irritating, slacker ones are interesting. And, truth be told, I was not always the most diligent of students.

 

Several thoughts...

First of all, Shawn, I'm glad you got your situation worked out. I think it offers a prime example of how a student at any college (not just Excelsior) has to take responsibility for their own plan. Remember that your counsellors serve thousands of students, and no matter how good they are at their job, they cannot possibly have more time to spend planning your education than you do, nor can they possibly know more about your past education than you.

I am a graduate from Excelsior (2003), and I had several issues similar to this. I checked my courses against the degree requirements, had them "bless" it, then checked it again. Their blessing, as you found out, is not more valuable than verifying that what they've blessed is accurate. In your situation, I understand frustration on your part, but in my opinion you were of equal or higher blame for missing the mistake. If you can miss a mistake about taking the same course twice, or not having a course show up, surely they can.

Additionally, surely you did not expect them to fabricate 3 hours of credit to allow you to graduate? How great of a disservice to their past and present students would such an act have been? While your case was unfortuante, you are the only one that could resolve it. Their offering to compensate you monetarily was above and beyond what I would expect, and indeed what I was offered in a similar situation.

As an aside, I find your comments about the applicability of "useless" courses to the real world to be puzzling. You went to school for a liberal arts education, majored in philosophy, and are upset because some of the courses won't be useful in real life, or conducive to finding work?

Wow.