Does anyone know anything about Touro University Int.

Once again......

Where on that letter does it say that Touro's accreditation is a sure thing? It doesn't and it wouldn't. Just so you know, several schools have lost their RA accreditation in the past several years. Even more have lost accreditation for certain programs. It is by no means naive to think it can happen it is in fact very naive to think it cannot. Before you get all bent out of shape, I have a Touro MBA and am sure most of their programs will be accredited. However, until it is I would NEVER recommend anyone enroll unless they are aware of what is going on.

 

Re: Re: Re: There is no such thing as a sure thing

Yes, I realize that the ecological and exception fallacies are staples of reasoning on this board... (http://www.socialresearchmethods.net/kb/fallacy.htm). Consider that it is one thing to say that it is possible for schools to lose accreditation, which nobody doubts, and still another to say that any particular school could lose its accreditation. Again, it is naive to imply that any school could lose its accreditation, but true to state that it is possible for schools to lose accreditation. There is a difference.

Cheers,

Dave

 

Re: Once again......

In my view, this is reckless fear-mongering...

Dave

 

What?

With a statement like that you should really get into politics. Lets not be farcical here. If we were talking about Harvard or University of Illinois your statement would have some validity. However, Touro has already been placed on probation once. When it was removed it came with the caveat from the accrediting body that they seek accreditation elsewhere. This information alone places them in the category of a school which has had accreditation troubles and places them squarely in the fold of a school which COULD lose its accreditation for at least part of its programs. Fear mongering? How's this, recently a state school in Illinois enrolled a bunch of people in an MSW program with the assurance the program would be accredited. Who would doubt it from a large state school with long history. Then, bam, the accreditation didn't come the school had egg on its face and the students were out in the cold. Before you accuse someone of naivette or reckless fear mongering you need to evaluate your own bias in the matter....

 

Re: What?

Critical thinking is important in research, especially at the doctoral level, so you may want to re-consider how you are trying to support your arguments. The probation on Touro College was removed quickly after the questions about TUI were addressed. Does the removal of the probation support your hypothesis? Probably not.

Moreover, definitions are also important. Originally, the discussion was about regional accreditation, now there is equivocation on that term to include programmatic accreditation.

While I realize that some folks were spooked by the MSA action, that fear doesn't seem to justify the apparent lack of critical thinking, and willful fear-mongering regarding TUI's future, IMHO.

Best wishes,

Dave

 

Critical Thinking

Accreditation and assumption of obtaining it based on a schools reputation is the matter at hand here so the example was exactly appropriate. You are missing the point of your own argument if you assume it is not.

The worst mistake someone could make in critical thinking is to allow bias to creep in. A big part of the research process involves the reduction or removal of the potential for bias. You will, in fact, be required to address in your dissertation what measures you took in your research to avoid bias. It is obvious that you are experiencing bias in this particular matter.

Another issue is responsibility. People spend their hard earned money on something assuming they will receive fair value for their money. Would I as person recommend something to someone when I know there is a problem with that something? Would I fully disclose all of those problems? Yes, it is my responsibility to do so as a human being.

I do think Touro will achieve accreditation for most of its programs. I do not assume that is a done deal for its doctoral programs, however. If it is, it COULD require changes which would remove the 100% distance education option. This would remove the advantage they have over other more established programs. If that occurs, it will greatly change the selection dynamic when reviewing Touro's PhD program. That right there is reason enough to pause before deciding on a PhD program if the distance education issue is important.

This is the last I am going to say on the matter. You are obviously EXTREMELY biased towards your program and have allowed yourself to become emotionally attached to this issue. Maybe it is expected from someone who has already invested so much time and money in a program. However, for you to insult others who are more cautious (rightfully so in this instance) is at a minimum poor manners .

 

Re: Critical Thinking

Friend,

When I pointed out the error in critical thinking regarding TUI's current status relative to the unit of analysis you suggested that I enter politics... Moreover, when I challenged your fear-mongering about TUI's future, you accuse me of bias... Still, you proclaim by fiat that your possibly inaccurate position is cautious and accuse me of practicing poor manners...

Suggestion: if you will attempt to state your positions without emotion and ad hominem attacks, they might be more convincing.

Best wishes,

Dave

 

Read this..

Read the above quote which you wrote to me then wonder why someone would feel insulted. You treated both myself and Han in a dismissive and condescending manner and now choose to play the one with hurt feelings? Please, the errors are all yours my friend and no amount of big talk added to your posts will change that.

Here is one incontestable fact:
Touro has had trouble with their accreditation in the recent past. This trouble specifically addressed the rigorousness of their programs. That is NOT a SMALL issue for accreditation or reputation. While the probation was lifted, they have been instructed by their accreditor to obtain accreditation elsewhere and have been given a time limit to do so. At this time, there is absolutely NOTHING in writing to indicate that TUI as it exists right now is GUARANTEED accreditation by WASC.

To ignore any of the above or to wish it away in recommending the school to another is at best wishful thinking and at worst dishonest.

And this time I am truly done

 

Re: Read this..

Friend,

Now, I'm dishonest for pointing out errors in critical thinking?! Still, the preaching of a flawed message against TUI continues and the ad hominem attacks persist... Fascinating: you maintain your beliefs even though they have been disconfirmed and you attempt to prosyletize others. Well, I still wish you good luck in your studies!

Best wishes,

Dave

 

Re: Once again......

This is the exact point..............

 

Re: Re: Once again......

How can knowledge be wreckless......... One can at least know, then way for themselves the chance of it happening.

 

Re: Re: Critical Thinking

I do not think that the issue is with DTechBA on this issue being bias...... maybe some others though

Again, I think the only issue that was raised is the knowledge of their current situtation with their RA accreditation. The original thread asks "Does anybody know anything about TUI"..... interesting nothing came up about their current accreditation situtation, only as fact, not bias information. They were on probation, they are currently switching their accrediting body. Fact is not bias, and since there is no argument, we don't need to go into the methodology for a sound and logicial argument, as this is a statement of fact. Now, if the discussion is further carried to the likelihood, then their could be a discussion of logic, but facts are facts, and I would not feel ethical about recommending a program to anyone without giving them the facts.

 

Re: Re: Once again......

What point? Probation on Touro College was lifted under the full knowledge of WASC.

Some folks jumped to conclusions based on misinterpretations of the situation with TUI and now have to live with those decisions.

Could the point be that those who believed there were problems at TUI were wrong and that they now are reluctant to admit their mistake?

Dave

 

Re: Re: Re: Critical Thinking

Hi. Methodology is important in this instance (actually, it is always important) because the conclusions about TUI's future could not be logically drawn from the available data (i.e., the interpretation of the data was biased or possibly they were employing naive reasoning.) At least, the authors of the questionable material could not defend their positions without questioning the motives of the writer of the opposing views (i.e., resorting to ad hominem attacks.)

Best wishes,

Dave

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Critical Thinking

A couple of points to this. Your first sentence is about drawings conclusions. The original poster obviously didn't have the data, so could not draw a conclusion. I only would ask not to hide the facts, the facts are that they were on probation (along with Touro), and now are not on probation, under the guideline that they must move their accreditation to their own.

I think time will tell, as I could reference the threads that speak about TUI getting AACSB in the following year..... which is over a year ago. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but the facts speak for themselves.

I have my own opinion, and do not think a debate is in order, as time will tell, but stating the fact up to this point is prudent and the right thing to do, as someone should know the situtation. They can in turn make their own decision on the severity of the situation, it is their time and money. I do not think it is fair for you to say, since it is not a big deal to you, that we should hide the facts..............

 

Yawn...!

Dave

 

Han, I am amazed you continue to attack TUI despite all the facts against your assertions and gross display of lack of your understanding of educational accreditation process. It makes me wonder if there is a personal issue between you and the institution. No one should depend on another person's recommendation to attend a particular institution. An opinion is okay but not a recommendation especially when that individual has no connection with that institution whatsoever and often holds views at variance with the facts. Each time you attack TUI, it diminishes your contribution to the issue to the point of not being taken seriously. Not because Han attacks but because Han assertions does not support the facts. TUI and TUC were never and have never been in danger of losing accreditation – and that is a fact you can take to the bank. TUI and TUC will not lose accreditation and that is another fact you can take to the bank as well. I am using TUI and TUC here because while the focus has been on TUI, the issues were applicable to both. I have said before I am not an educational accreditation specialist but I have done enough work in the line of hospital accreditation and I can tell you that most of the statements made her about accreditation process are based on facts.


When one continuously display a lack of understanding of an issue refusing modifications even in the face of overwhelming facts, it leaves one to wonder if there are other issues not being disclosed. No one should condemn another institution for any reason for such is a gross display of academic ignorance. I have written extensively on this forum dispelling a lot of myths often held by people and using personal examples with the hope it might help one individual. If it helps just one person, my personal contributions would not have been in vain. While in school, I often do not have time to contribute regularly to this forum but my session is winding down and felt I should take a peak at this forum and then found your ceaseless attacks and felt the need to respond. Good luck.

oko

 

I am sure I am ignorant on the accreditation process, but so are others that says that probation is not a sign of issues. There is no way someone can say that there is no way a school can lose their accreditation..... every school could.

I have purposefully stayed away from the discussion on TUI, as I was closer to this school than I would have liked. I posted here many moons ago and asked about the school, and the board gave praise after praise.... the response was many thought that they would have AACSB accreditation soon, and I ALMOST took the leap of faith. I am glad I didn't. I think it is naive to think that reputation and stigma is not something that is plaguing DL, as well as a school that goes on probation.

I just want to say look at the facts, and at least state the facts.... all the other opinions, yours, like mine, should be taken with a grain of salt.

The several in this board that are students of TUI, I understand it is not a high point for the school, but they will probably get through it, they will probably recover fully, but during this transition, be fair.

I will not be intimidated by the refernce to a personal grudge, or you discounting my opinion as it does not mirror yours. The only personal beef I have had is with the board singing praises on a school and only "perfect" marks and not giving the straight story. There is no perfect school out there, and giving the good and bad is the ethical thing to do.

 

DTechBA

You owe me one, the personal references have moved away from you that were starting early in the thread and moved to me, as they always seem to move away from the content intent of the thread when it comes to TUI with some...........

 

Bingo!

Dave