Doctor of Professional Practice (can possibly transfer free graduate certificate)

Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by sanantone, Jan 19, 2023.

  1. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

  2. Michigan68

    Michigan68 Active Member

    $2500 per credit. Yikes !
    Dustin likes this.
  3. Messdiener

    Messdiener Active Member

    It's something akin to the micro-credentials offered through Coursera and other providers, no? Universities offer a free or low-cost certificate, and then they say it can build into their significantly more expensive degree program.

    It's a pretty decent business strategy if you ask me!
    sanantone likes this.
  4. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Instead of a dissertation, the product is a "culminating experience." I have no idea what that constitutes, but you spend 24 of the 45 credits getting there.

    The program costs approximately $US115K. (Assuming you have a master's or 15 transferable graduate credits.) It is a safe bet there won't be too many self-paying participants. We talk about ROI a lot (too much, considering the lack of specifics), but it's likely an individual will struggle to get a good ROI on that, while a corporate sponsor certainly would. I suspect that's the audience.

    (It's why you can't afford my fees but my corporate clients can.)

    Another reason why I think it is primarily directed towards corporate- and organization-sponsored students: it will admit you with just a bachelor's degree. If you don't have that master's or transferrable credit, they'll tack that requirement on. That bumps up the cost to a little more than $150K. Chump change to prepare one (or several) leaders for your corporation/organization. But....

    Thunderbird has an outstanding reputation. If someone wants to invest this amount into your executive development, you and they both will get something good out of it.
  5. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I don't see that here.

    It's a doctorate that will take 15 credits of master's-level work in transfer. That's it.
  6. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    That's what I was thinking. The 100 Million Learners graduate certificate can transfer into the master's in global leadership and management and now the new doctorate in global leadership and management. The graduate certificate is being paid for by philanthropists, but it looks like Thunderbird/ASU is trying to capitalize off of it.

    I've looked at hundreds of doctoral programs, and this is the first time I've seen wording that specifically says that a graduate certificate can be transferred into the program. Normally, a school might say that they will apply credits from a master's degree or graduate credits that weren't used for a previous degree. My educated guess is that applicants rarely have graduate certificates.
    Messdiener likes this.
  7. Courcelles

    Courcelles Active Member

    I can’t imagine there’s enough overlap between the market for a free graduate certificate and a 110k USD doctorate to picture this being intentional or planned. Isn’t it just an expensive way to say “we will take 15 relevant graduate credits, even if you used them towards another transcripted award.”?
  8. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Global leadership and management is a very specific degree and certificate title. This is a brand new program starting in August. They've marketed the master's program to those interested in the free graduate certificate. The graduate certificate was designed to fit nicely into the master's program.
  9. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    The graduate certificate is 15 credits. How often do doctoral programs allow students to transfer in 15 credits? The doctoral program also has low admissions requirements.
  10. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Further, this one will accept master's-level credits in transfer. Essentially, they're saying if you don't have a master's, you can be admitted by doing 15 s.h. of coursework. If you do have a master's, you just do the 45 s.h. doctoral work.

    I have to think this is done to include executives (sponsored) who do not have a master's.

    When I was at Leicester, you could be admitted to the master's program by completing a 2-year diploma program (instead of a bachelor's). The master's would, in turn, get you admitted to the doctorate. This would allow experienced practitioners who didn't have a degree a pathway to the doctorate.
  11. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    I find it intriguing that there are 60-credit doctorates popping up that either don't require a master's degree or will accept masters-level transfer credits. Typically, a master's degree is supposed to reduce a program from around 90 credits to around 54-60 credits.

    Even though Thunderbird is AACSB-accredited, I don't think a DPP that appears to almost be open admission is worth $100k in tuition.
  12. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    My counter would be that credits are largely irrelevant at the doctoral level. It's the institution, the degree, the research, and who supervised that really matter. I've always felt that most full-curriculum doctorates were just going over old ground anyway. At least this one seems to be trying to stretch in the right areas and not waste educated people's time.
    I'm not sure the admissions situation is relevant. Outcomes, not inputs, are what matter. Its exclusivity should come from the outstanding graduates it creates, not from keeping people out.

    As for the $100K (more like $115K, or more if one doesn't have the 15 graduate credits to transfer), that's in the eye of the beholder. As I mentioned in an earlier post, organizations are willing to pay far more than individuals because (a) they can and (b) they'll see a much greater return.

    I know of an EdD program specifically designed for executives in the talent development field. It costs nearly $200K and has graduated just a couple of dozen people or so. I suspect almost everyone in that program is having their participation paid for by their employers with the express intent of having those graduates function at the strategic and executive level, performing strategic HRD. If you're a mucho-million or multi-billion dollar operation, the cost of obtaining that kind of talent development partner is chump change.
  13. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Is there an open entry doctoral program in the U.S. with a similar reputation and outcomes to a top-ranked doctoral program?

    One of the selling points for programs like this is that you're learning from your fellow classmates who have been academically and professionally successful. Another selling point is networking. If someone is an executive or on track to become an executive, and their big time employer is willing to pay six figures for a doctoral degree, would they choose this program or one with more prestige?

    Many are willing to go $150k in debt for a doctoral degree at Walden and Capella, so I won't be surprised if people take out loans for this program.
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2023
  14. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    From Thunderbird's website (and I have no reason to doubt it):

    The Thunderbird School of Global Management is ranked No. 1 in the world for international trade by the QS International Trade Rankings, scoring 100/100 points and ranking ahead of Harvard, MIT and Stanford.

    Thunderbird is one of the best business schools in the country. I think they know how to be elite regardless of their admissions policy. (And who said it was open admission, anyway?)
  15. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    W.P. Carey is ranked pretty well but not Thunderbird, which is why Thunderbird has all of these random, meaningless rankings on their website. The ranking you referenced only applies to master's programs in international trade. Their global management program, which is probably what the ranking is based on, has higher admissions requirements than their leadership and management programs.

    I'll contact them to see whether they accept everyone who meets the minimum requirements until seats are filled. Usually, there's some kind of indication that a programs is competitive. This program doesn't require a minimum GPA, a master's degree, or even eight years of senior-level experience. Experience is just preferred. If you don't have a business background, they'll add courses to your plan of study to make up for deficiencies.

    The QS International Trade Rankings can include any MBA or master’s programme with the content to prepare students for a career in international trade.
  16. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    They seem to show up on a lot of rankings lists.
  17. Asymptote

    Asymptote Active Member

    I’ve heard of “professor of practice” or some such, but never “doctor of professional practice.” Is this a unique sort of degree?

    What color will the hood be?
  18. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    A search on The Google shows it is not. But it would not be considered common, either.

    What color will the hood be?[/QUOTE]

    Black if you're successful in practice, red if not.
  19. Messdiener

    Messdiener Active Member


    Wrong thread!
  20. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    One of the schools I found was actually a conglomeration of polytechnics in New Zealand called Te Pūkenga. It offers a doctor of professional practice with the field of study defined by the student and facilitator. (So it has to be in a field they can supervise.) Totally by DL and will cost about $US5K per year for 3 or 4 years. This is a Level 10 (doctoral) qualification listed by the NZQA.

    It appears the student completes a series of projects rather than a thesis. No courses: One key point of difference with Capable NZ study at this level is that you’ll undertake a series of projects to produce sustainable outcomes that affect or influence others within and beyond your organisation. Projects are expected to result in knowledge creation that adds to your organisation, sector and/or community’s intellectual and structural value, leading to an increase in overall capability.

    Fascinating stuff.

Share This Page