DL Engineering Degree

Ted H:

You aren't totally confused. ABET actually accredits individual degree programs, one at a time.

The ABET programs you mention have a D/L component but it is hedged with all kinds of residence and delivery requirements.

Since the OP wants to design things like rollercoasters, he will eventually need P/E registration. It is possible in some states to achieve this distinction without an ABET B.S. in Engineering but it is MUCH more difficult to do so than you might think. Even an ABET B.S.E.T. would make life much easier.

 

Yes, you should try to get relevant experience asap. It will help you towards your PE requirements. When I was a student in the States 10-15 years ago there was something they called Coopeative Education (or something like that, CoOp), a program in which engineering students could work in well known companies to gain experience for a relatively modest salary. It was a magnificent, fantastic idea that helped students become better prepared for the profession and make some money to help with the tuition. Your local university might have a similar program.

 

Yes, you´re right, Nosborne. Engineering by DL is not appreciated by the American establishment as we have discussed numerous times in this board. However, other countries like Australia and UK offer fully accredited DL engineering programs that can be "converted" to ABET thanks to the Washington Accord (if I remember correctly). In some states a non ABET degree holder only needs to add more years of relevant experience to qualify for a PE licence (what´s the percentage of registered engineers in the US, anyway? Is it so important after all?).

 

In THIS particular case, P/E registration will end up being very important. To OP wants to design amusement park rides carrying people. Even if his state doesn't require P/E plan approval, which they likely would, his insurer sure as hell will.

In general, I agree with you. Unless working on a government contract or something, most electronics and computer engineers don't need to be licensed.

 

More on ABET and PE

I don't believe that this is true. ABET does accept many foreign engineering programs as "substantially equivalent", but not 100% distance programs. For example, ABET discusses Australian engineering degrees here, and states that "All programs accredited by EA [Engineering Australia], which are shown as external studies or distance education require periods of on-campus attendance." So some residency is required for Australian distance programs, as with the ABET-accredited University of North Dakota distance programs.

True. But in other states, an ABET degree is mandatory. And in all states, ABET degree holders qualify for licensing exams with less experience, and pass those exams at higher rates. If a PE license is desirable, then an ABET degree is desirable.

Overall, about 20% of US engineers hold a PE license; a disproportionate number of those are civil engineers. In civil engineering, the percentage of licensed engineers is higher; in most other branches of engineering, it is lower. The need for PE licensure tends to be associated with the following criteria:

- custom (rather than mass-produced) engineering designs
- governmental regulation and inspection of designs
- risks to public health and safety
- potential for litigation

In such cases, the PE may be legally required. Since theme park design would seem to meet these criteria, I suspect that the PE license is necessary or least desirable.

 

Thanks again guys for the support...I'm going to try and figure out if any Louisiana schools have the program where you can work for an engineering firm while in school. Anyone in Louisiana know if it exists?
Anyways thanks again for all your help...

 

Re: More on ABET and PE

OK, CalDog, thanks for the clarification.

 

Ok guys I have some more information. I contacted the Engineering Department at LSU and discussed with one of the counselors the chances of gaining employment with an engineering firm while enrolled in school. She said that LSU offers a career services program which assists students in finding jobs relevant to their field. My only problem with that is that someone like myself with a full time career looking to go to school full time needs to have a job prior to starting school to supplement my income. I will try and call some engineering firms to discuss with someone the chance of gaining employment prior to actually starting school and see where that leads me. I'm still open to any more suggestions and thanks again for all your help....

 

The Engineering Department at Louisiana Tech has a Cooperative Education Program. You can find it here:
http://www.coes.latech.edu/chemical/coopprog.htm

But..you have to have 45 credit hours before you can participate.

The University of Lousiana also has one, and it looks like you can participate right away, as long as you keep your grades up:
http://orsp.louisiana.edu/FundingOps/PA/NASA/1870.shtml

Xavier University also offers a co-op ed program:
http://www.petersons.com/blackcolleges/profiles/xavier.asp?sponsor=2904

 

Here is a suggested path to an engineering career:
1. Earn an AA in engineering (Excelsior for example)
2. Get a job as an engineering technician (where promotion to engineer is possible)
(steps 1 & 2 can be in any order or done together)
3. Whilst employed as a tech continue your path to a BS in either Technology or Engineering. With luck your employer will pay tuition.
4. Look for engineering position. Your tech experience wil be invaluable.

Engineers with a good knowledge of professional level CAD program, such as CATIA, will always be in demand, even with minimum academic background.

In my opinion the key engineering jobs in the USA will be in the civil and chemical engineering areas.

 

Therse are the steps to become a licensed engineer in California:

"Requirements for obtaining Engineer-in-Training (EIT) certification

1- Complete three years or more of college in a Board approved engineering curriculum [any curriculum approved by the Engineering Accreditation Commission (EAC) of the Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology (ABET)], or three years or more of engineering-related experience (e.g., work of any nature with an engineering exposure {such as with a consulting engineering firm, a construction contractor, CALTRANS, the engineering division of a public utility, etc.}.

2- Take and pass the eight-hour National Council of Examiners for Engineering and Surveying (NCEES) EIT examination


Steps that an applicant must take to become licensed as a Professional Engineer by examination in any branch of engineering

1 - six-year qualifying experience requirement as follows:

(For applicants claiming education credit, work experience must begin after the date of graduation, as shown on the transcripts, and be complete prior to the exam final filing date.. Applicants not claiming any education credit must take and pass the EIT exam and be able to verify at least six years of professional level engineering work)


(1) Undergraduate Education

(a) Four years' credit for graduation with an engineering degree from a Board approved engineering curriculum Canadian engineering programs accredited by the Canadian Engineering Accreditation Board entitle the graduate to four years credit. This four years’ credit will NOT be given to a graduate from a non-ABET approved engineering curriculum.

(b) Two years credit for graduation with a bachelor's level engineering technology degree, or one year credit for graduation with an associate level engineering technology degree, from a technology curriculum which has been accredited by the Technology Accreditation Commission (TAC) of ABET.

(c) Two years credit for graduation with an engineering degree from any school whose engineering curriculum is not Board approved (this includes all foreign schools).

(d) The Board may at its discretion give credit as qualifying experience of up to one-half year for each year of successfully completed study (not to exceed two years’ maximum credit) in an engineering curriculum which did not result in a four-year engineering degree. A year of undergraduate education is equal to 32 semester units or 48 quarter units. This credit will not be granted for any education which overlaps with qualifying work experience.

(e) A maximum of five years experience credit shall be granted for graduation from a cooperative (CO-OP) work-study program from an engineering curriculum accredited by ABET.

(2) Post-Graduate Education

The Board may give a maximum of one year credit as qualifying experience for satisfactorily completed graduate work in an ABET-approved curriculum.

(3) Engineering Teaching

The law allows the Board to give a maximum of one year credit as qualifying experience for engineering teaching in a college curriculum, provided that an applicant is claiming no more than four years credit for education.

2 - Pass the appropriate eight-hour professional engineer's examination.


There are three categories of Professional Engineer licensure available in California: (1) practice act, (2) title act, and (3) authority. The practice acts are Civil, Electrical, and Mechanical Engineering. Practice act means that only a person appropriately licensed with the Board may practice or offer to practice these branches of engineering. The title acts are Agricultural, Chemical, Control System, Fire Protection, Industrial, Metallurgical, Nuclear, Petroleum, and Traffic Engineering. Title act means that only a person licensed by the Board in that branch of engineering may use the title in any manner. The authorities exist for two sub-branches of civil engineering: Structural Engineering and Geotechnical Engineering. An authority indicates a proficiency in that field greater than what is required for civil engineering licensure. Persons who pass the written examination will be issued a license in the branch of engineering for which they applied

Synthesis: (For those without an engineering degree)

3 years of engineering related experience + FE test = EIT Certification.

6 years of engineering related experience + FE test + PE test = Professional Engineer License.

 

I had not even considered that. Thanks for that option and I will definately give it some serious consideration.

 

If you decide to try and qualify for the F/E exam by experience, look CAREFULLY at the TYPE and AMOUNT of experience the Board will accept. Not all engineering related work will do. Look also at the documentation the Board requires. Don't wait until you have three years' work experience before you start putting your portfolio together!

 

In California that is true for the PE license.

For the FE/EIT they just ask Have you had at least 3 years of engineering related work experience? if you mark yes, you are qualified to take the test.

I did it that way (I have many years of experience)

 

This board and you guys and gals are absolutely invaluable. I appreciate all the help as I had no idea where to start when I considered Engineering as a career. I placed a phone call to the LSU Engineering counselor yesterday and she explained the PE Certification process in Louisiana in detail. The credit for work experience is only accepted after you complete a bachelors degree program that is ABET accredited. I am strogly considering the option of completeing the Assocites degree through DL but I need to make sure that LSU will accept all the transfer credits to apply to the 4 year engineering degree program they offer. Again thanks for all your help and I will keep you up to date on my progress...

 

California EIT/PE rules are not typical

It's true that the engineering licensure system provides an alternative, non-academic means of earning engineering credentials. For example, the "Engineer-in-Training" certificate (= "Engineer Intern" certificate in Louisiana) can be a valuable entry-level qualification. Some universities use the FE (=EIT) exam as an "exit" exam for undergraduates, so an EIT certificate is arguably equivalent to a BS degree.

However, the licensing rules in California are very unusual by national standards, and they are not applicable to residents of other states. To qualify for the EIT exam in California, all that you need to do is check off a box attesting that you have at least 3 years of engineering work experience. The state board makes no effort whatsoever to verify your experience claims (they do for the PE exam, but not for the EIT exam). So in practice, the EIT exam is open to anyone.

In most or all other states, you have to meet certain education and experience criteria to qualify for the EIT exam. For example, the Louisiana requirements are shown here. In Lousiana, you need the following:

- an ABET-accredited bachelor's degree in engineering (in practice, a college senior about to graduate with an ABET degree would likely be OK)
- or a board-approved bachelor's degree in an engineering-related field, plus a board-approved master's degree in engineering,
- or some other board-approved engineering degree plus 4 years verified experience.

So Louisiana is much more restrictive than California about letting people into the EIT exam. Most other states are like Louisiana; California is the exception. California's education and experience requirements for EITs/PEs are the probably the loosest in the country. (California does have the toughest PE exams in the country, but that's another issue)

 

Caldog:

What you say about the California F/E exam is true; all you do is "self certify", but I'd be very, very slow to check off that box unless I could argue with a straight face that I really HAD that experience.

As you point out, the Board does not attempt to verify your claim UNTIL you apply for the P/E. Then it would inevitably come to light that your claim on your F/E application was a false official statement.

I doubt that it would land you in the Men's Facility at San Luis Obispo, but I am quite sure that it would be taken VERY seriously when the Board made its decision whether to grant you your P/E license.

If you can't document enough experience or education and you REALLY want to take the F/E exam, take it in New Hampshire! Last time I checked, NH imposed no requirements at all beyond a high school diploma.

 

So what do you guys think about obtaining my associates degree in engineering through DL and then gaining employment with a local engineering firm? While working for the engineering continue to work towards my bachelors degree through traditional means which will give me some experience and also allow me to make contacts within the field.

 

Hmmm...just did a good bit of searching for regionally accredited online associates degrees in engineering and found not one school that offers it. Anyone know of any schools offering this degree in an online format?

 

Not online but there are a large number of community colleges that offer an Associate of Science in Pre-Engineering through night classes. Note that this is NOT an A.A.S. degree; it is the first two years of the standard Engineering curriculum.

AAANNNDDD...it would meet Caifornia's prelaw educational requirement...