Divisions among doctorates

A DO is a Doctor of Osteopathic medicine (an MD is a doctor of Alopathic medicine). It is a parallel track for licencure in the states, and they tend to have a more holistic, whole body approach, and do some osteopathic manipulation (similar to chiropractors). For all intents and purposes there is little if any difference between the MDs and DO except that DO schools have tended to be more forgiving of unusual backrounds. Touro's medical school, BTW, is an osteopathic one.

 

A tech degree would be useful, but not necessary to take the patent bar exam.

The qualifications to take the exam are 1) a law degree or 2) a qualified science or engineering degree. In the latter case, the successful patent bar exam taker is a "patent agent" rather than a "patent attorney" and can practice law only on matters before the USPTO (prosecuting patent applications). A patent agent cannot practice in the courts, of coure.

In both cases, there is a struggle to pass the exam. The would-be agent must study the narrow area of patent law without benefit of legal training. The would-be patent-attorney must study claims drafting without benefit of a technical degree, the claims having to do with simple mechanical, electrical or chemical inventions (the test-taker's choice).

 

Have they relaxed the requirements for attorneys with no science or engineering degrees to take the patent bar? About a year ago, I read that the law degree holder still needed a science or engineering degree in order to take the patent bar--or I could have just misread it?

EsqPhD

 

As a law lecturer here in England with just a LLB and professional exams (solicitor-advocate), I agree that a higher degree would add little as a good lecturer will have mastered the art of critical and original analysis anyway.We wouldn't let a student loose in the court-room until he's then served a period in chambers or in a solictor's office.
I have to say that I find the thought of a fresh faced Bar graduate without practical experience defending in court quite frightening !!
Tan Ikram

 

I looked at http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/dcom/olia/oed/grb0110.pdf and it seems to imply that attorney's must have a technical degree. (It could have been stated more clearly, but that would be asking too much.) I may have had a long-term misconception about this. Five to six years ago I was under the impression that attys didn't need a technical degree. I could have been wrong then as I appear to have been on my previous post. Sorry.

Bill Highsmith

 

An off topic question if I may. Are U.S. attorneys wrongly using and appropriating the title "Esquire" as is used in England?

If you can clarify...how is the title "Esquire" to be used in England--who does it apply to?

 

Esquire is an interesting title. I encountered an attorney here (USA) who insisted on the title and loved it to the point of putting it on her personal checks. She informed us that if we wanted to get in good with an attorney we would write esquire after their name.

As an honorary title I suppose it could be used by anyone. When my grandfather received the Centennial Medal in Canada his letter that accompanied the medal addressed him as So & So *esquire*. I really do not know what the etiquette for its use is.

North

 

While I'm vague on the usage in Great Britian, in the U.S., it is almost solely used by attorneys. Many or most of the State Bars recognize the title of "Esquire" as the official title for a U.S. attorney. Thus, the attorney you encountered is probably only using it in the same way that a physician uses M.D.

I don't know if a person would necessarily get in better with me just because they place that title behind my name. Probably, the only thing that I would think is that the person knows proper American etiquette in their written correspondence to an attorney. Formally, the American etiquette when writing to an attorney (with no other titles) is either:

Mr. John Smith
Attorney at Law

or

John Smith, Esq.

 

Very interesting. I am glad you shared that information.

This attorney I mentioned was trying to educate us to the fact that *esquire* should be used after attorney's names. I certainly did not know that. SHe poked fun at a store clerk who she said thought her last name was *Esq*

Incidentally, in Canada some attroney's are honored with the title Queen's Counselor (as I understand it) and so use QC after their name.

Nicholas Smith, QC

North, GX (Generation Xer)

 

Nope. They still have the requirement, as they have had for as long as I remember. Incidentally there is an excemption afaik to eveen having to take the bar. AFAIK Used to be that working as a patent examiner for 4? years qualified you without the exam. I know a few ex patent examiners who are now patent attornies having gone to law school at night in DC while working at the patent office.

 

Debrett's suggests the following in relation to the use of the term Esquire :

Titles, Orders, and Degrees of Precedence and Dignity:

"...
Esquires
...from scutifer (shield-bearer)..
..the title of esquire which in former times was a title of change and
office only, crept forth among other titles of dignity and worship...
..five classes of esquires, graduated degrees of honour..
..We know no such distinction at the present time, but it has been a
subject of dispute among our most learned writers as to whom the title
of esquire really belongs. It is, however, well understood that those to
whom the title is of right due are:
Noblemen's sons, the eldest sons of younger sons of peers and their
eldest sons in perpetuity...[list continues - es].......Royal
academicians and any person who, in virtue of his office, takes
precedence of esquires: justices of peace for countries (while in the
commission).

Certainly no reference to lawyers , barristers at law or solicitors as such , so I'm not quite sure what 'right' attorneys have to use the term.
Having said that , my bank manager and accountant tend to annex esq. after my name for no apparently good reason.

Tan Ikram LLB
Solicitor-Advocate (England)

 

I just looked through various vacancies for higher education lecturing in law in the UK and first degree with professional qualifications is still acceptable for most posts but in reality , there are so many Masters graduates in law these days that they will always have a head start. I have to be honest , I do sometimes feel underqualified , on paper at least, as I currenly lecture part-time on a postgraduate diploma in law with just a first degree ( plus professional qualification).

Tan Ikram LLB Solicitor-Advocate (England)
Senior Lecturer, Holborn College

 

I got this definition from Webster's dictionary--see if it adds any more to your definition.

-------
Esquire \Es*quire"\, n. [OF. escuyer, escuier, properly, a shield-bearer, F. ['e]cuyer shield-bearer, armor-bearer, squire of a knight, esquire, equerry, rider, horseman, LL. scutarius shield-bearer, fr. L. scutum shield, akin to Gr. ? skin, hide, from a root meaning to cover; prob. akin to E. hide to cover. See Hide to cover, and cf. Equerry, Escutcheon.] Originally, a shield-bearer or armor-bearer, an attendant on a knight; in modern times, a title of dignity next in degree below knight and above gentleman; also, a title of office and courtesy; -- often shortened to squire.

Note: In England, the title of esquire belongs by right of birth to the eldest sons of knights and their eldest sons in perpetual succession; to the eldest sons of younger sons of peers and their eldest sons in perpetual succession. It is also given to sheriffs, to justices of the peace while in commission, to those who bear special office in the royal household, to counselors at law, bachelors of divinity, law, or physic, and to others. In the United States the title is commonly given in courtesy to lawyers and justices of the peace, and is often used in the superscription of letters instead of Mr.


Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.
--------

According to Webster's dictionary--in England, counselors at law, and bachelors of divinity, law, and physics can also use them? Does that sound right to you?

EsqPhD

 

I think, in this case, physic refers to the field of medicine.

TCooke (B.S. Physics but not an esquire)