"Diploma and Accreditation Integrity Protection Act," House Resolution 1758,

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Lerner, May 19, 2011.

  1. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

  2. b4cz28

    b4cz28 New Member

    I hope it makes it.
  3. OutsideTheBox

    OutsideTheBox New Member

    I was worried but its narrow for Federal interests and the use of fruad when handing out degrees but I would hope a clear exclusion for religious degrees was in the language.
  4. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    May this ill-conceived bill die in committee! First, it's not an inherently deceptive practice for an unaccredited school not to lead with that particular piece of information about itself, especially since accreditation is private in the U.S. and since unaccredited is not the same thing as illegimate. Second, there's no way under this legislation for new accreditation bodies to start -- they can't operate because they're "accreditation mills" without CHEA approval, and they can't get approval if they're not operating.

  5. dlady

    dlady Active Member

    This would effectively freeze the legitimate US education market with the existing players, from schools to accreditors. Additionally, the wording is so bad that it could be abused to shut down one of the few areas of innovation left to us, the ability for a trade or membership organization to offer industry certifications without torturous government interference.

    For example, because they don’t understand the industry and use the terms certification and certificates interchangeably, PMI would now be a rouge illegal organization that could neither accredit degree programs or offer their PMP certification without having the government either declare them outlaws, or with them trying to get grandfathered in and change their operations to include having the government tell them how to operate and presumably taking a piece of the action in the form of additional ‘fees’ to be paid to some accrediting body. Further, as Steve points out, all market entry would now be barred through it being illegal to start any institution that want to educate through the offering of certificates, since all regulation say that you must be operating with your current programs for 2 years before you can apply for accreditation.

    Another example IACBE, who just got CHEA approval this year, would have been shutdown by the government years before and their leadership convicted of a crime for operating without government approval in the years prior to them achieving CHEA approval.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 22, 2011
  6. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Thats is correct, I also understand that if certification institute be it PMI or some other body like CompTIA aether will have to get accredited by a recognized accrediting agency or move the headquarters to lets say Brussels or something.
    I know some organizations like IICET is international and overseas somewhere.

    Since the legislation blocks creation of new accrediting agencies the existing and we have many will have to make room and create process to accredit certification organizations.

    Some one on the other Chanel contacted PMI about this.

    And what about vendors like IBM, Cisco, etc they all have certification diplomas.

    On another side some say we have to many accrediting agencies and lots of redundancy and its a good thing to limit their number.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 22, 2011
  7. Garp

    Garp Active Member

    It is a great idea and much needed. The sheer proliferation of degree mills is astounding. However, this bill is VERY poorly worded. I really do not understand why some of these people who attempt bills do not get people like Dr. John Bear to assist. He has an idea of the difference between unaccredited and degree mill and what is necessary to work towards accreditation and so on. Instead, well meaning politicians craft bills that are poorly thought out like this one.

    The lack of understanding about the education system is normative. I just got done reading some articles about Dr. Ergun Caner who went down in flames over questions of his stretched stories of growing up as a Muslim. He stepped down as head of Liberty Theological Seminary (where by some accounts he had been quite popular and trippled enrollment). He was kept on for a year as faculty and is now moving to another small seminary or bible college (Arlington Baptist College). A side note to it, were questions about his listing of his doctorate. He has a ThD or DTheol from UNISA. Apparently, he had listed it as a PhD at different points. One women making a comment on an article said this was wrong because that was like her "listing her JD as a PhD". I laughed because (though I too would question his listing his ThD as a PhD because that is not what was awarded) her comparison was wrong. Dr. Caner's ThD is equivalent to a PhD but her JD is not (JD is a professional degree and not a doctorate in the sense of a research degree earned after a Masters).
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2011
  8. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator Staff Member

    I was thinking the same thing - it would be illegal for Cisco, CompTIA, and Microsoft. Another example of what could be a fairly good idea written poorly due to lack of knowledge and understand about the field they are trying to protect!
  9. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Well in UK they did it they have accredited/regulated qualifications. Yet Cisco or Microsoft certifications are recognized by employers in UK and are not illegal.

    There is a possibility that this wording of the legislation will be changed to a better one.
    Also there will be possibly industrial exception like one we have for the Engineers.

    I can see if this law is not changed a business or PO boxes and virtual offices boom in British Islands etc.
    They may have to take the rout mills took until things change.

    So Microsoft will award certification from BI.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2011
  10. OutsideTheBox

    OutsideTheBox New Member

    (Holds up my handsome and framed Doctor of Metaphysics degree from the ULC)

    As a legally recognized degree holder of this fine religious degree I take grave exception to my degree granter being considered a Mill, as an ordained member of the church and a cleric duly recognized my degree is perfectly fine. That is between me an my degree mi... oh degree granting religious body.

    I can't wait for the legal challenges if this passes from every seminary, rabbinical program or other option not accredited offering religious education you know the First Amendment trump card will likely win the day.

    [No I don't consider my degree on par with the ones here I just like using the title Doctor or slapping a DM after my name, its amusing. And if someone sees me disabled and talks down to me as a child I can say I hold an religious doctorate and its true its a good stab back.]
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2011

    GMISANARSE New Member

    I am sure that prestigious institutes like PMI or CompTIA or Microsoft will not worry one iota about this Act. the Act is being developed to protect consumers from the likes of the American Academy of Financial Management (AAFM American Academy of Financial Management International AAFM ® Accredited Certification Education and Designation Credentials qualifications QFA Qualified Financial Analyst Accredited Financial Analyst AFA mfp master financial planner Certified Financ and similar certification mills.
  12. dlady

    dlady Active Member

    Wow terrific! Please provide a link to your newly discovered information so we may all rest easy.

    Or do you mean that big companies with lots of money could buy their way out? What about new legitimate start-ups? Pretty much kills them, right? But that's okay?

  13. GeneralSnus

    GeneralSnus Member

    Not particularly.

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