Did Jesus Really Exist?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by paynedaniel, Mar 15, 2005.

  1. marilynd

    marilynd New Member

    Re: Re: Re: 10 Questions Reply

    In general, that would be my experience as well.

  2. Re: Re: Re: 10 Questions Reply

    Maybe that's because of the long history of the Inquisition, the Holocaust, and the Pogroms, not to mention the near extermination of the pre-Colombian civilizations of the Americas at the hands of "Christians". Not sure other world religions have quite the bloody trail that Christianity leaves.... with the possible exception of Islam, but most of that is very recent and in reaction to western imperialism in the regions most heavily occupied by Muslims....

    Some things you just can't sweep under the rug and forget.

    That being said, I am still a Christian person - just not afraid to point out the hideous artifacts of a religion-gone-bad under the leadership of some very evil (and most decidedly ungodly) people in past and recent history.

    Give Falwell half a chance and some real power, and he'd repeat the genocidal crimes against so-called heresy of the middle ages in a heartbeat (in my humble opinion).
  3. pugbelly

    pugbelly New Member

    Check out this article: http://www.sonic.net/sentinel/naij3.html

    The article is quite informative and provides several other nonbiblical sources where Jesus is referenced. It's interesting to note that Jesus is even referenced in the Jewish Talmud. As you might expect, Jesus is mentioned in a negative light, not as God, but his existence is not disputed, nor are his wonders.

  4. pugbelly

    pugbelly New Member

    <Give Falwell half a chance and some real power, and he'd repeat the genocidal crimes against so-called heresy of the middle ages in a heartbeat (in my humble opinion).>>

    I'm not a Falwell fan...not even a little bit, but that's really speculative.

  5. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: 10 Questions Reply

    Christianity was (and is) a huge part of Western culture, and was shaping it as well as shaped BY it over the centuries. IMHO it is hugely unfair to dump all the atrocities on christianity (replace "Christians" with "white people" and see how it sounds).

    And, again - Communism! Not even technically a world religion, less then hundred years of active life, humanistic premice - and yet, what a death toll! (replace "Inquisition" with "NKVD" and "Holocaust" with "Holodomor" - wow, it's like a mirror!). And, again, communist ideology (theology?) is Atheist.
  6. Mr. Engineer

    Mr. Engineer member

    Forget the argument on whether or not JC existed, I just want to know if Jimmy really exists or if he is a figment of my imagination...

  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: So what are we supposed to believe?

    So I guess you don't believe Pluto exists since you have never seen, touched, smelled, or observed it, huh?
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Well, since you have never seen, touched, smelled, or observed me, I don't exist! :D
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I always ask people who say they don't believe in God, what God don't they believe in.

    Oddly enough, I end up telling most of them that I don't believe in that God either.
  10. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member


    Yes, Jesus did/does exist. In fact, may I suggest you're not even asking an interesting question, because the objective evidence is much stronger than that supporting Darwinian evolution. An interesting question that my Jewish friends and I discuss frequently is whether Jesus is/was who he claimed to be: The Son of God. I believe that he both did/does exist and that he was/is who he claimed to be, and I would be happy to discuss the matter outside this thread. Send me a private message if you would like to.


  11. paynedaniel

    paynedaniel New Member


    Perhaps the reason there's no writings to the effect that Jesus did not actually exist is because all contemporaneous writers and historians knew that the biblical authors were basing their Jesus character on a "Teacher of Righteousness" who lived about a century and a half before. Therefore, there was no need to refute what everyone knew to be a mythology or reconstruction of a messiah-like personality.

  12. dcv

    dcv New Member

    Cool... let me try.

    I don't believe in a god that cooks up a salvation scheme based on a bloody human sacrifice.
  13. Mr. Engineer

    Mr. Engineer member

    Wasn't this thread about Jesus Christ and not God? I never confuse the two. Jesus Christ was a mere mortal (such as yourself Jimmy dear). -- nothing more.

    (of course the bible is pretty much a work of fiction - silly how shallow people actually buy into this stuff - I guess you can sell anything to some people - lol)
  14. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    Do you have proof to share with us or are you just another religious zealot who has faith in research you didn't conduct?


  15. pugbelly

    pugbelly New Member

    <<silly how shallow people actually buy into this stuff>>

    See, I thought we were actually having a civil conversation and then someone has to come along and make it personal. Ignorance and rudeness are two traits that never cease to amaze me. I don't mind if we all disagee on a given topic...it makes life more interesting. But in a forum that is supposed to promote higher education can't we at least pretend to be civil?

    SpoonyNix likes this.
  16. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Right, Pug. That's why I'll leave this thread in the capable hands of most of the posters on it. You and Paynedaniel and almost everybody in between are handling things just fine.

    One side note. Marilyn said that the ex-seminarian and Great Butcher Joseph Vissarionovich did not believe in God. According to the absolutely brilliant book Stalin and His Hangmen by Donald Rayfield*, he did, based on marginal notes in books and letters found in his thoroughly used library. As well as being a genocidal monster, Joseph Vissarionovich was a notably well-read man, something not generally admitted by others, and belied by his studied uncouthness.

    *Rayfield is professor of Georgian in the University of London.
  17. Mr. Engineer

    Mr. Engineer member

    Religous Zealot? I have been called many things, but never that. Don't you in fact have to be religious in the first place to in fact be a zealot?

    I simply made a statement of opinion - you don't need proof of that. Much like a certain moderator (who should know better) - the burden of proof if always on the moving party (in this case, you). Why not prove that I am wrong?

    Please don't bless me - I find that condesending. If I wished to be blessed, I would ask.
  18. Mr. Engineer

    Mr. Engineer member

    Oh - so because I disagree with your religious convictions, you assume that I am rude. I think it is pretty damn rude for a religious zealot to be shown on TV with the President. (shows that his religious priorities are more important that his priority to the state)
  19. uncle janko

    uncle janko member


    Actually, your rudeness appears to have ontological foundations independent of any ideas you entertain. How does someone "assume" that someone else is rude, anyway? Sheesh.
    SpoonyNix likes this.
  20. paynedaniel

    paynedaniel New Member

    Mr. Engineer,

    I most likely agree with your philosophical and religious positions, but to say it is shallow to buy into religion isn't fair. There are brilliant people who are religious. And there are stupid people who are atheist. Anyway, I understand what you're trying to say (I think), but there's certainly a more polite and reasonable way to say it.


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